What are you actually supposed to wear for a day in the field?
Jake Woolf, Avian Sandercock and Sam Turner work their way through the strange mixture of tradition, practicality and unwritten rules that governs sporting clothing.
They start with driven shooting: tweed caps, ties, cravats, breeks, plus fours, shooting coats, estate tweeds and the question of whether matching tweed is smart or simply too much. From there they move onto fly fishing, where technical clothing, waders, polarised glasses and enormous pockets full of flies take over, before looking at stalking, camouflage and wildfowling.
Along the way they ask whether function should come before fashion, why so many countryside traditions survive long after their original purpose has disappeared, and whether worrying about the “right” clothes risks putting newcomers off altogether.
Plus inappropriate fishing shorts, the Chelsea life jacket, technical tweed, self-propelled Barbour jackets and why wildfowling in tweed is probably something you only try once.
In this episode:
- Why clothing and presentation still matter on a driven shooting day
- Whether function should come before fashion in the field
- Tweed caps, ties, cravats, breeks, plus fours and shooting coats
- Why traditional shooting clothing developed the way it did
- Estate tweeds, keeper uniforms and camouflage
- Why clothing should not become a barrier for newcomers to shooting
- What to wear for river and salmon fly fishing
- Waders, fishing vests, fly boxes and polarised sunglasses
- The idea of “matching the hatch” when choosing flies
- Technical fabrics versus traditional outdoor clothing
- Modern shooting clothing and the rise of technical tweed
- Why women’s shooting clothing is finally becoming more practical
- Clothing for lowland and hill deer stalking
- Camouflage, concealment and breaking up the human outline
- What to wear for wildfowling on the foreshore
- The importance of staying warm, dry, windproof and able to move
- Matching the Hatch by Pat O’Reilly — the fly-fishing guide mentioned by Avian
- Frederic M. Halford — influential writer and pioneer of modern dry-fly fishing
- River Test fishing — the Hampshire chalk stream discussed in the episode
- Barbour — traditional waxed outdoor clothing
- Dubarry of Ireland — country boots and outdoor clothing
- GORE-TEX — waterproof and breathable technical fabrics
Part of the SideCountry Network.
This transcript was generated using AI and may contain minor errors.
Richard Prideaux: Coming up on Fish and Game.
Jake Woolf: You don't just have to wear that stand-up wax jacket that has never been cleaned for 25 years and kind of walks the children to school on its own.
Avian Sandercock: It looks like somebody who's taken an MR2 and put a Ferrari Testarossa body kit on it.
Sam Turner: To be completely honest, when I go fly fishing, I wear my short shorts, kick me shoes off and walk into the river. My Microsoft Word will load by the time we get cracking, I imagine. It's come up with a little box in the middle. It says it's starting Microsoft Word. Opening in protected view.
Jake Woolf: How you getting on? Logs on.
Avian Sandercock: Logs on.
Sam Turner: Logs on. Ah.
Jake Woolf: You winning?
Avian Sandercock: Wax on.
Sam Turner: We're getting there. Little blue things going round and round.
Jake Woolf: Is trying its best.
Sam Turner: The little Microsoft Word symbols appeared on the task bar, I believe they call it.
Jake Woolf: So while we're waiting for Sam's computer to ignite and start up again for episode 3. Gents, great to see you again. And how are you? Well.
Sam Turner: Very good, very good.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, doing well, mate, doing well.
Jake Woolf: Good, Well, you know, let's just get into it, shall we? Episode 3 is the uniform of the field. Now, chaps, I'm no Gok Wan, and I'm certainly not here to tell anybody whether their breeks match their socks, but I do believe that a day in the field is about how we present ourselves and that matters for me. Chaps, what are your thoughts?
Avian Sandercock: I think it depends what you're doing. I agree with you for sort of a formal driven day shooting and for certain different. aspects of the sport. But, I think that's something we need to look into is throughout the different disciplines, if you will, there are some bits that expect you to turn out in a certain way and other bits that are far more practically driven. So, for example, if you're doing a day's lowland stalking, you're not expected to be out there in scratchy tweed and a deer stalker hat. You'll be dressed for silence and comfort, won't you?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's for me, it's getting dressed. It's an anticipation. of a day. I want to feel a little bit different to just getting up and walking the dogs. So I think it's one of those where I'm really enjoying and I'm looking forward to this episode of the bits which I don't normally do. So whether or not I'm stood in a river, you know, how should I dress? Do I wear tweed in a river? Is that something? Sam, I mean, you do a bit of fly fishing. Would it be seen to wear tweed or would you wear technical gear?
Sam Turner: To be completely honest, when I go fly fishing, I wear my short shorts, kick me shoes off and Sometimes take my shirt off. It's probably not the best one to ask on that.
Avian Sandercock: You can do that because it's your own river. I think really that what's behind all of the clothing is the ability to sort of not hide away, but make yourself discreet to the target you're pursuing. So, you know, you don't want to be out on the grouse moor in a flappy white shirt because they'll see you a mile off. You don't want to be, you know, in the middle of the field in full tree green camo because you'll look like one of Negus's hedges in the wrong place. And if you're on the river, you don't want anything that will scare them by reflecting or fluttering. So I think at its core, it's very much becoming part of your environment so you're not scaring the quarry.
Sam Turner: I think you've got to be warm, dry and camouflaged.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Are they the three golden rules, shall we say, chaps?
Avian Sandercock: I think they're the golden rules if you actually want to pursue your quarry and achieve something. And I think the very British thing of making everything a little bit of a pantomime has sort of crept in over the years and has ended up that, you know, I don't know why everybody wears a gilet in a Tattersall shirt as their kind of uniform, but that seems to be the way the country set dresses. And a lot of that spills over. And I guess there are a few sort of silly little things that people do that they don't really know why they do anymore. But at its basis, I think it is. It's just blending in.
Jake Woolf: So function before fashion, would you say? Yeah, that was you saying. What about you, Sam? Function before fashion.
Sam Turner: I don't know. Is it? I don't think it is. So if it was absolutely howling down with rain and I was going on a driven day somewhere nice, I could look at my coat and waterproof trousers that are hanging up in the utility room and think they are going to keep me dry and warm for the day.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: But at the same time, I ought to put on my brakes. I ought to put on my cap that's not waterproof but looks fancy. And I'll wear a coat that's somewhere in the middle.
Avian Sandercock: You're looking at the cow outfit is probably not your shooting at the estate up the road.
Sam Turner: No, I mean, even if I washed it, I don't think it would be appropriate.
Avian Sandercock: So okay, I mean, Jake, you go into it then, because you've got a bit more experience than the rest of us at running shoot days and what's expected on that. Let's crack off with driven shooting. What's the outfit?
Jake Woolf: Let's go from head to toe, shall we? A tweed cap. It seems to be the tradition at the moment. It has been for a long, long time, hasn't it? It's there to keep our head warm, its head to keep us dry. But I would like to find one that's breathable because the last few seasons, I find myself taking my cap off without looking into the real histories of wearing a hat. It would be the reason of keeping weather off. But also, doffing a cap. I've seen people on driven days when they see a fox run through the line or a good shot to, they doff their cap to their neighbouring gun. There must be some history of that.
Avian Sandercock: Would it surprise you that I've never seen that?
Sam Turner: Nobody's never doffed their cap with me.
Jake Woolf: Doff the cap or seen a fox run through your lines? Neither.
Sam Turner: It did the same if you throw your hat on the floor in anger and stamp on it.
Avian Sandercock: Or just leave it in the back of the gun bus. That's my usual trick.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: That is true. That is true. A collection of hats. What I should do is not mention them on our data. I'm going to do, right, this is what we're going to do. Lost property. I'm going to keep it to the end of the season and then I'm going to put it out there that I've got this wonderful stuff. It's for sale and see if you'll recognise your stuff. I reckon, Avian, there'll be a lot of clothing of yours. to be doing a lot of buying back, doesn't it? Anyhow, so moving down, a smart shirt, you've already alluded to a Tattersall shirt. Some people do wear those, but equally a very plain, definitely not a salmon pink shirt.
Avian Sandercock: So those sort of check, muted coloured check shirts, aren't they?
Jake Woolf: For me, it is a tie on a driven shoot day.
Avian Sandercock: Would you allow a cravat?
Jake Woolf: I would. I would. I think we're friends now, it's not relaxed. It's a very, very smart way of dressing. I do think. And if you can pull a cravat off, and I can think of a couple of our friends who we shoot with regularly through the seasons, they do put it off really smart.
Avian Sandercock: They're also good for the man with a thicker neck.
Jake Woolf: There we go. There we go. I wasn't going to say that, but.
Sam Turner: How do you look at someone who turns up with, you know, so far we've done, they've got the right hat and the right shirt, but they're not wearing a tie.
Jake Woolf: So on a driven day. I would expect everyone to come in a cravat and or a tie on a driven day. On A walked up day, it is seen to be a slightly dressed downer occasion.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's because there's more activity involved, isn't there? If you walked up, which for people who don't know, Driven Day, you stand in line, walked up, you traipse across fields and bracken and brambles and Christ knows what.
Jake Woolf: But Avian, I wear a tie when I'm beating and picking up. So I think if you are on a day, for me, tradition is a big thing. So I wear a tie to honour the fact that whether or not I've been invited as a guest or I've paid for the day or I'm there to work, there is something for me. So I would expect people and or a cravat. So that's my, that's me changing a smart jumper, breathable ideally, micro fleece style with the new kind of materials, but those woolen jumpers that over those big saggy kind of long ones. You're not going to wear that on the front. Oh, Christmas jumper shoot days. Yeah, we've been on those. Yeah, but for me, a jumper is a real kind of, You've gotta look at the time of the year that you're shooting. You're not gonna be wearing one in February, you're not gonna be wearing one in September. You wanna be breathable, you wanna be movable. You don't want to layer up so you can't actually move. And then we look at breeks. I'm a breeks man. I wear my plus fours. Some people like to wear trousers.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, that's an interesting distinction, isn't it? 'Cause I like a brick. Breeks are those silly trousers that stop at the knee. And then I never remember which way round it is for plus fours and plus twos. Is it above 4 inches above the ankle or below the knee? I can never remember. I thought it was. I thought it was stalactites.
Sam Turner: It was +2 hanging down, isn't it? And then plus four and plus sixes.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, I'm cornish, so we don't get to plus 6 below the knee.
Sam Turner: And I think maybe even plus 8.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, they do go to plus eights. I'm more certain of that.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, but I think that's, you know, I'm with you, Jake, I like a bit of dressing up for a driven day. And I think breeks are good, plus fours, plus twos, they can be good. But you do see quite a lot of people now wearing sort of hunting trousers, which are expensive, they're tailored, they kind of look the part. But to me, unless they're stuffed in a Wellington, they're not, I don't know, are they the part? Great for a walked up day, great for stalking.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it, Aven? Because the thing there, mate, is you're going to be wearing wellies. So you're going to be stuffing your trousers down into your boots regardless. So is it comfort, nice trousers over your boots?
Sam Turner: If you're wearing lace-ups, then you're going to be over the top.
Jake Woolf: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Or lace-ups and gaiters. See quite a lot of those.
Jake Woolf: That's what I do now is even a shoot day, I will wear that picking up, definitely beating, hosting, you'll find me and that will be my kit. Only time that I wear boot like wellies or I've got a pair of Dubarrys is when I'm invited on a day. Because I polish them sometimes. Always try and polish your boots. But yeah, it's so then we go down to the socks and boots and wellies. It's about looking smart and there are some wonderful opportunities to really dress smart to the occasion. The question is, do you wear a tweed suit or do you mix and match? Are your trousers the same as your jumper? Are you brand specific?
Sam Turner: Doesn't that depend if you're the owner of the estate, the head keeper, the underkeeper, or the chap who's there to shoot?
Avian Sandercock: Starful guest, yeah.
Jake Woolf: Interesting question. I mean, I see people come to me now and I shoot with people that have got wonderful, wonderful three-piece suits, you know, shooting jackets and breeks, and they look amazing. And other people, they kind of, you know, they've got a pair of technical waterproof dark green plus fours on, but then they've got just a jumper and a I mean, it's interesting.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's how it's evolved, hasn't it? Because originally, the Batu shooting brought over from the continent was, it was very formal. You'd be wearing the trousers because if you wore long trousers, they get wet and they were impossible to dry and covered in mud. which is why you had the long socks and the brogues, so the water would run out. And then you had to have the suspenders to hold your socks up. And I guess what we're seeing now is kind of a modernization of that, but a nod to it, because before it would always be the Norfolk shooting coat, wouldn't it? You wouldn't have a big, heavy overcoat. And I guess it was the Barbour and now all the technical clothes that have made it lighter and allowed people to layer, because if you're in the season from August through to end of January, you've got an awful lot of weather ranges to consider there. If you're out in the grouse moor, I mean, crikey, on the 12th, it was 30 odd degrees up there. And you can be stuck in sort of minus 5 up on the Welsh mountains towards the end of the season. So, you know, there's a lot of that to take into account. I mean, it's been talked about a bit, but is the current trend matching tweed for the gun or mixed tweed for the gun? What about for the staff?
Sam Turner: Is that where you have a state tweed? So the staff will wear a certain tweed so that they all, they're kind of uniform. And I thought it was bad form for a gun to wear matching tweed, which is why I always, that's obviously the reason I never do.
Avian Sandercock: I think if you own the estate, you can wear your tweed wherever the hell you like.
Sam Turner: I think if you own the estate, you can wear what you want.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: It's one of those where you see those estates and all their keepers, they look incredibly smart.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Is that a hat tip to just the tradition and making your, it's no different to me wearing a uniform at work.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, or the crew on a boat or.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, absolutely. Or is the tweed there designed to help blend in? So because there's different colours of tweed.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: Would a tweed, am I right in saying this? It would be used to blend in the keeper teams and what have you to their environments.
Sam Turner: So yeah, it'd be more of a camo than it would anything else.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, because I think don't the grouse tweeds have sort of quite a lot of purple in them to blend in with a heather. Is that a thing?
Jake Woolf: That's what got me saying it, because, you know, we were recording just after, you know, August the 12th, and I was seeing pictures of teams up there, but there's a wide variation of different ones. So I wondered, was that old traditional camouflage to help them blend in?
Avian Sandercock: Yes, and we've got to mention the Chelsea life jacket, haven't we? The fleece gilet, that seems to be de rigueur wherever you go. to them. They're great. They're warm. You can zip them into your coat as an extra layer. And after you've shot, they keep your back warm and you've got pockets for your bits and bobs. And I think that's a great move forward. But at the same time, I am quite partial to, you know, a shooting waistcoat.
Jake Woolf: Okay, so would you wear your waistcoat under your shooting jacket and your coat, or would you wear it over the top of your coat? I'm not saying you should wear your Chelsea life jacket So I'm not saying that you should wear your Chelsea life jacket over the top of your shooting coat, but would you put on a technical shooting vest over the top like the loaders do? And would you look like that?
Avian Sandercock: I'll be very, very honest with you. I wouldn't, but it's not a style thing. I struggle to find a coat that'll zip up without trying to put anything over the top of it. So for me, that's a no. But I get where you're coming from because I think if you don't have a loader, you're going to want to have quick, easy access to cartridges when you're out in the field. I like going out with a big pocket full because the last thing you want to do is be scrabbling on the floor trying to grab a few cartridges out of a muddy cartridge bag.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, quite. Sam, what would you say about that? a kind of a shooting vest over the top of your water.
Sam Turner: No, so I'd wear a shooting vest, but it would be probably on those warmer days, early season days when you've just got a jumper on vest over the top of that. And if it's, obviously when it's dry and the weather allows, but yeah, I wouldn't put an arm over the top of a coat.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So apart from, let's say, jeans and I don't know, a tattered donkey jacket, What would you say is a complete no-no? What's taboo in the shooting line?
Sam Turner: What's a donkey jacket?
Avian Sandercock: You don't know a donkey jacket? Well, I suppose since we don't have an industry anymore, nobody wears them, do they? were a black straight rough coat with leather or vinyl patches on the elbows and the shoulders. So you could carry bags of coal and heavy lumps of wood around and half an MG or a Wolseley.
Jake Woolf: I actually bought one of those with my Christmas money at the sales.
Avian Sandercock: I bet they're worth a fortune now, aren't they? If you could get one on vintage, you make a million.
Jake Woolf: Yeah. To answer your question there, mate, I actually don't think clothing should be a barrier to entry. I've already said that I like people to dress up smartly and to take the day as it should be seen, which is a privilege and an invitation and a respect to your hosts. But if you only had jeans and you had a pair of wellies and you borrowed a coat and it's your first day, you're gonna learn pretty quickly and you're gonna get the bug and you're gonna wanna go into it, so I'd hate for clothing to be a barrier to entry. But I would expect if you can, you would turn up as smartly as you possibly can.
Sam Turner: So effort over a tire.
Avian Sandercock: 100%, 100%. I think we've all shot. I might draw the line of joggers and Crocs. I think we've all seen that chap turn up in the flappy shirt and the battered hat and the faded jeans who shoots like an absolute god. They get a pass, don't they?
Sam Turner: Wow, maybe.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So I mean, moving it on guys, we touched on fishing earlier. I mean, fly fishing. if you break that down into rivers, lakes, salmon and trout, I think there's a degree of etiquette in salmon fishing. I know the few occasions I've been lucky enough to go, you are expected, even under your waders, to be wearing breeks. It's a shirt and a tie. And often the rivers themselves will have a hat. So that's kind of a thing. But I think more and more fishing is going into technicality of clothing. And all of the clothing we're talking about today, movement is one of the key parts to it. You can't be sort of scrunched up in your clothing. You need that sort of flexibility to move your arms and move about the ground you're on. But I don't think fishing necessarily, particularly fly fishing, has that kind of codification to it. if you turned up for a day's fishing and you were just wearing waterproof clothing, you're not going to get turned away, are you? I mean, you need your glasses and your hat just for protection from whizzing flies, but you're not.
Sam Turner: When you said certain rivers have certain hats, does that mean you buy a day on the river and you get given a hat? Or you have to buy a hat.
Avian Sandercock: Before you take your day on the river? big Scottish rivers and the Scottish beats that there are tweeds that match the rivers, but that tends to be more the keepers and the owner of the river. But there is a bit of etiquette that the cognoscenti, the people who know if you're wearing a river spade tweed, they would spot it. But I don't, it's not required, not in any way in the same way that you'd look for it in driven shooting.
Jake Woolf: So I have no idea what to wear if you're fly fishing.
Avian Sandercock: Not A mankini. Sorry.
Jake Woolf: I have one of those. Stag dude 2019. But so much as I did with driven game shooting just a few moments ago, chaps, can you educate me in what I should be wearing when I go to the side of a river and into a river to cast a fly?
Avian Sandercock: Sam.
Sam Turner: Waders.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Obviously, if you're going in, you don't need that if you're just fishing from the bank. It seems to be the thing that you have a special vest that can hold about 100,000 more flies than you ever require.
Avian Sandercock: And scissors and boxes and.
Sam Turner: Scissors and boxes.
Jake Woolf: And why do you need so many flies?
Sam Turner: In my experience, you hook them in trees and then have to cut the end of your leader off to get it out. And then of course you don't catch a fish. And it can't be you not casting in the right place or casting badly. It must be the fault of the fly. So you change the fly.
Avian Sandercock: And you can take 5,000 flies with you and the only one that's catching, you've only got two of and you put the first one in a tree. Yeah. Brilliant.
Jake Woolf: And then the flies all represent all the same fly for that day and you've worked that out or do you have lots of different coloured flies? I've seen those that there are. So I've seen friends that have said, you know, show me pictures of their flies and what have you. They're all different colours, you know, brightly luminescent and that type of thing. So is that what you're taking there for?
Avian Sandercock: Gilly told me years ago that flies catch more fishermen than fish and he's absolutely spot on. I mean, in its purest form, there's a wonderful little book called Match the Hatch. And the idea is you spend your first hour on the river and you look around at what the life going on the top is. You kick over some stones and catch the bugs that are coming out and you have a look at them and there'll be little shrimps and nymphs and flies flying around and things emerging from the river and you do your best to try and match the fly on your line to what you think the fish might be feeding on. So if you're wrong, that's why you change. And unfortunately, trout are a bit of a ******. They can change their minds halfway through. Can they? Okay, that's I think the key thing, as Sam was saying, was you take it with you because if you're wading in the river, the last thing you want to do is keep wading back out again to go and pick something up and going back in. So these jackets, as he said, they're like World War Two life vests. They're enormous with all all these pockets and bits and you can never find what you want. But I think we can go into the complexity of what's in the fly box when we do fly fishing, because again, that's rabbit hole territory.
Sam Turner: It is.
Avian Sandercock: Fair play.
Sam Turner: And a set of polarised sunglasses as well would be an essential.
Avian Sandercock: Why is that? Tell Jake.
Sam Turner: Just so you can, it basically removes the glare from the top of the water. So you see into the water rather than just looking at a reflection of a river bank or a tree or whatever else. So the idea is you see the fish that you're not catching.
Jake Woolf: There we go. So that would be the kitting out for the fishermen.
Avian Sandercock: Yes. And again, I think, the key to the theme running through all of this is the colouration. You're looking for sort of a drab colour, greens, browns, greys, something that isn't going to make you immediately stand out, but also isn't going to make you this big silhouette above the bank of the river or in the river that will spook the fish off.
Jake Woolf: With the Test, would that be a different kind of colouring to say the Avon, and I'm only saying a few rivers that I know, but would you wear different colourings of greys and blues and greens?
Avian Sandercock: I don't think so.
Jake Woolf: Or does it not?
Avian Sandercock: I don't think so. I think you know you wouldn't want to go very, very dark or very, very light. You wouldn't want to go colourful. You kind of just want to be invisible. As Sam said right at the top, whilst it's not strictly speaking camouflage in the way you think the army wears, it's just blending in and just being discreet and you basically want to try and not be there.
Sam Turner: You don't want to have an outline, I think is the same with all of it when it comes to any form of camouflage is removing the outline so that you don't look like a person, pretty much.
Avian Sandercock: And I think with fly fishing, often if you're river fishing for trout, it tends to be a solo affair. And I think it's a little more codified for salmon fishing because there's quite a lot of après-salmon. You'll come out to the clubhouse for breakfast and lunch and you'll meet up with the others. So there's that little bit of when you've taken all your clobber off, you're not wearing t-shirt and pants underneath. Well, I mean, you are underneath, but I think fishing clobber is very techy these days now, isn't it? There's a lot of very, very high, high wear, highly waterproof, breathable materials they're using.
Sam Turner: Is that right?
Jake Woolf: Has it gone a bit too techy, would you say?
Avian Sandercock: No, not for me. I like a bit of techy.
Sam Turner: But I think everything's gone with fishing and with shooting. Everything's gone technical, but it's almost coming round. a bit full circle, as in they're now making the technical fabrics more traditional looking.
Avian Sandercock: Do you like that? Because I know there are a few companies who've done that sort of very, very high tech material that's overprinted with tweed. And to me, it looks like somebody who's taken an MR2 and put a Ferrari Testarossa body kit on it, I think. Go tech and camo. or go tweed. Don't go techie tweed. I don't know, I don't like it. What do you think?
Sam Turner: I think it's nice to nod towards tradition, but I know what you mean by that one that looks like it's just been printed with tweed.
Jake Woolf: I'm going to go with, I like the fact that there's more choice these days. We don't just have to wear that stand up wax jacket that has never been cleaned for 25 years and kind of walks the children to school on its own. But I love the fact that there is now so much choice, a huge amount of choice in men's and ladies clothing. That is equally important now in this kind of, it's at function before fashion. With the sudden kind of upsurge of ladies joining sport and certainly into driven shooting, these companies are now really understanding that it's not one-size-fits-all, I'd say. And I've noticed that between all the companies.
Avian Sandercock: I think ladies have been very keen and very successful fishermen for a long time. And I think in the shooting line, Hopefully it's becoming more prevalent and they're being catered for. It's not, you know, paint it pink and put a feather on it. It's actually well thought through and well produced. I mean, rattling a long time, we touched earlier on deer stalking. You're more of a deer man than the rest of us. I've done a couple of outings, but I mean, lowland deer stalking, stalking in the hills, what's your take on clothing for that? Are there any silly?
Sam Turner: That's all gone very techy, but at the same time, you know, if you're doing hill stalking in Scotland, that tradition of wearing the deerstalker hat and tweed. Again, like we said, that will be matching the environment so you do blend in. But I mean, there's technical stuff now you can wear that just makes you completely invisible. Yes.
Avian Sandercock: And it's tick proof as well, which I think is becoming more and more a really important thing, isn't it? That is nice.
Sam Turner: You know. But so we've worked out that obviously pheasant, partridge, grouse, salmon, and deer do appreciate you wearing a tie sometimes. Track don't give a crap as long as you're wearing something.
Avian Sandercock: Really technical that you've thought about. I wrote a wonderful thing that said, because there's a chap, F. M. Halford, who was the guy who on the chalk stream sort of set out the Bible. of fly fishing. And it just said, the etiquette is the real dress code. And I thought that was possibly one of the most pretentious things I'd ever read.
Sam Turner: Yeah, but what does a duck think?
Avian Sandercock: Quack.
Jake Woolf: We've left one bit out and we need to move that on. Wildfowling, what do you wear on the foreshore?
Avian Sandercock: Well, wildfowling, I think we're straight back to Sam's mucking out the cowl equipment.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: Because you're going to get filthy, aren't you?
Sam Turner: Yeah. It's almost a cross between your fishing gear and your shooting gear, isn't it?
Avian Sandercock: It really is. It really is. Because I think, you know, I mean, I've never done proper wildfowling, but I've seen the guys going out. I mean, they can walk for two or three miles in the dark through, you know, the clumps of marsh grass and little gullies of mud. And sometimes they even wear those sort of big duck feet to stop them sinking in the silt. I mean, it's real dedication stuff.
Sam Turner: Dress like a duck, think like a duck.
Avian Sandercock: Think like a duck. And I shoot like a duck. So there you go.
Jake Woolf: But I guess it's also about keeping warm as well, isn't it? When you're on there. That is very much warm and dry.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's the line through all of this, isn't it? Is comfort, flexibility, warmth and keeping dry and also windproof. I think, you know, I felt fair when we came up to yours, Jake. You know, I was had by Cornish waterproof stuff that was nice and toasty warm, but it wasn't properly windproof and your northeasterly winds cut me in half.
Jake Woolf: They do cut you in half up here, don't they? It's unpleasant.
Avian Sandercock: It is lazy wind, rather than go round you, it goes straight through you.
Jake Woolf: So how many, taking it back to shooting, we are very often invited to come on a driven day and we're gonna finish on the ducks. and we're going to wait for them to come in. We're going to go on a splash and see what's coming in. Do we need to have more than one jacket in the car? You know, is there a one jacket fits all kind of a, should we be looking at Gore-Tex? Should we be looking at a tweed coat? What happens?
Sam Turner: I think as long as you haven't got soaking wet throughout the day, then you just wear the same clobber you have been all day. carry on into the evening, don't you?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I think if you're on the flighting duck, and that's something I love doing, I think, first of all, you hit the nail on the head, you're into darkness, so you've got a bit of a friend there anyway. But I think if on a driven day you are wearing anything flashy, I mean, there's a good friend of ours, isn't there, who likes wearing a turkey on his head? You may want to take that off. And I think the difference there is between driven shooting and all the other disciplines we've talked about and the fishing, is in a driven day, you don't wanna stand out, but you are placed in the middle of a field and birds are flushed over you. Whereas all the other disciplines, you are trying to get into their environment without scaring them. So I think if you do finish with a duck splash, if you've got anything that's a bit garish on, take it off 'cause you really are trying to conceal yourself and just be aware of that. But I think to Sam's point, I always go with two hats, two coats. Because you can get the, you know, we all know the weather report isn't always what is actually gonna happen and there's nothing worse than turning out for the second-half of the day. And this is where some of the technical coats win. The older coats, they end up weighing about 300 weight once they're soaked with water and they're bloody miserable to drag around and you end up smelling like a cheap suit or a wet dog, don't you?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it's got me, it's got me thinking there, like I guess to throw it back to wildfowling there, you wouldn't wear tweed on a wildfowling day, would you? Not with the amount of.
Avian Sandercock: Water you would, but probably only once, and they just put, I don't know, a little cross where you went into the marshes and maybe a bunch of flowers.
Sam Turner: Where you were last seen.
Jake Woolf: So it does become very technical, but I think. It's almost like it's another segue. We're getting better at these, we're really not.
Sam Turner: What's on next week's episode, Jake.
Jake Woolf: And next week's episode is, drum roll please.
Sam Turner: Night fishing. No.
Jake Woolf: We're talking about wildfowling. So I think we can. ring the shop door bell. We can put on... I can't come with God, you've got to help me out here. We've got to try and get these endings better.
Avian Sandercock: We've done a very, very brief run through sort of things that worn in the countryside. I think there's been a lot said about the history of it and what Tweed is and all this sort of stuff. And I don't think there was much point in us doing that. But hopefully, For the people listening, you've got sort of an overview that there's a general theme, but there are some weird bits. And I think it is that odd thing that anyone who goes driven shooting of any form kind of wants to dress as an Edwardian. It's the pantomime fancy dress in all British people. But I'm really looking forward to getting stuck into wildfowling because this is something I don't know much about. There's a big estuary down the road from us. I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to go out in the middle of the night paddling through mud. but we'll do a bit of homework. We'll talk to a few people and I'm really, really looking forward to doing that one. Sam, where can people find us? What can they do to help us? What's our socials, all that sort of stuff.
Sam Turner: They can find all of that in the show notes. They can find us on Instagram, Fish and Game Podcast and part of the Side Country Network. Make sure you do like, comment and subscribe when you listen to these.
Avian Sandercock: And give us those five star reviews, please.
Sam Turner: Yes, obviously only if you like them.
Avian Sandercock: No, just give it to them.
Sam Turner: But if you've got this far, you know, you probably do like them or you have things broke and you can't switch us off. Yeah, and you can find us on our socials, which I think everything will be in the show notes.
Avian Sandercock: That's fantastic, gents. Thanks very much for that. Hope that's been enjoyable. Catch us next week where we are going to be wild about foul. Guys, we're going to go and have to get muddy and find out about wildfowling.
Sam Turner: Yeah, we're not going to end on puns. Go on then. No, I can't think of any.
Avian Sandercock: Well, that's why we're not ending on puns, Dirk. Right.
Jake Woolf: I'm bored of you.
Sam Turner: Goodbye.
Jake Woolf: Have a good week, chaps.
Richard Prideaux: Coming up on Fish and Game.
Jake Woolf: You don't just have to wear that stand-up wax jacket that has never been cleaned for 25 years and kind of walks the children to school on its own.
Avian Sandercock: It looks like somebody who's taken an MR2 and put a Ferrari Testarossa body kit on it.
Sam Turner: To be completely honest, when I go fly fishing, I wear my short shorts, kick me shoes off and walk into the river. My Microsoft Word will load by the time we get cracking, I imagine. It's come up with a little box in the middle. It says it's starting Microsoft Word. Opening in protected view.
Jake Woolf: How you getting on? Logs on.
Avian Sandercock: Logs on.
Sam Turner: Logs on. Ah.
Jake Woolf: You winning?
Avian Sandercock: Wax on.
Sam Turner: We're getting there. Little blue things going round and round.
Jake Woolf: Is trying its best.
Sam Turner: The little Microsoft Word symbols appeared on the task bar, I believe they call it.
Jake Woolf: So while we're waiting for Sam's computer to ignite and start up again for episode 3. Gents, great to see you again. And how are you? Well.
Sam Turner: Very good, very good.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, doing well, mate, doing well.
Jake Woolf: Good, Well, you know, let's just get into it, shall we? Episode 3 is the uniform of the field. Now, chaps, I'm no Gok Wan, and I'm certainly not here to tell anybody whether their breeks match their socks, but I do believe that a day in the field is about how we present ourselves and that matters for me. Chaps, what are your thoughts?
Avian Sandercock: I think it depends what you're doing. I agree with you for sort of a formal driven day shooting and for certain different. aspects of the sport. But, I think that's something we need to look into is throughout the different disciplines, if you will, there are some bits that expect you to turn out in a certain way and other bits that are far more practically driven. So, for example, if you're doing a day's lowland stalking, you're not expected to be out there in scratchy tweed and a deer stalker hat. You'll be dressed for silence and comfort, won't you?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's for me, it's getting dressed. It's an anticipation. of a day. I want to feel a little bit different to just getting up and walking the dogs. So I think it's one of those where I'm really enjoying and I'm looking forward to this episode of the bits which I don't normally do. So whether or not I'm stood in a river, you know, how should I dress? Do I wear tweed in a river? Is that something? Sam, I mean, you do a bit of fly fishing. Would it be seen to wear tweed or would you wear technical gear?
Sam Turner: To be completely honest, when I go fly fishing, I wear my short shorts, kick me shoes off and Sometimes take my shirt off. It's probably not the best one to ask on that.
Avian Sandercock: You can do that because it's your own river. I think really that what's behind all of the clothing is the ability to sort of not hide away, but make yourself discreet to the target you're pursuing. So, you know, you don't want to be out on the grouse moor in a flappy white shirt because they'll see you a mile off. You don't want to be, you know, in the middle of the field in full tree green camo because you'll look like one of Negus's hedges in the wrong place. And if you're on the river, you don't want anything that will scare them by reflecting or fluttering. So I think at its core, it's very much becoming part of your environment so you're not scaring the quarry.
Sam Turner: I think you've got to be warm, dry and camouflaged.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Are they the three golden rules, shall we say, chaps?
Avian Sandercock: I think they're the golden rules if you actually want to pursue your quarry and achieve something. And I think the very British thing of making everything a little bit of a pantomime has sort of crept in over the years and has ended up that, you know, I don't know why everybody wears a gilet in a Tattersall shirt as their kind of uniform, but that seems to be the way the country set dresses. And a lot of that spills over. And I guess there are a few sort of silly little things that people do that they don't really know why they do anymore. But at its basis, I think it is. It's just blending in.
Jake Woolf: So function before fashion, would you say? Yeah, that was you saying. What about you, Sam? Function before fashion.
Sam Turner: I don't know. Is it? I don't think it is. So if it was absolutely howling down with rain and I was going on a driven day somewhere nice, I could look at my coat and waterproof trousers that are hanging up in the utility room and think they are going to keep me dry and warm for the day.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: But at the same time, I ought to put on my brakes. I ought to put on my cap that's not waterproof but looks fancy. And I'll wear a coat that's somewhere in the middle.
Avian Sandercock: You're looking at the cow outfit is probably not your shooting at the estate up the road.
Sam Turner: No, I mean, even if I washed it, I don't think it would be appropriate.
Avian Sandercock: So okay, I mean, Jake, you go into it then, because you've got a bit more experience than the rest of us at running shoot days and what's expected on that. Let's crack off with driven shooting. What's the outfit?
Jake Woolf: Let's go from head to toe, shall we? A tweed cap. It seems to be the tradition at the moment. It has been for a long, long time, hasn't it? It's there to keep our head warm, its head to keep us dry. But I would like to find one that's breathable because the last few seasons, I find myself taking my cap off without looking into the real histories of wearing a hat. It would be the reason of keeping weather off. But also, doffing a cap. I've seen people on driven days when they see a fox run through the line or a good shot to, they doff their cap to their neighbouring gun. There must be some history of that.
Avian Sandercock: Would it surprise you that I've never seen that?
Sam Turner: Nobody's never doffed their cap with me.
Jake Woolf: Doff the cap or seen a fox run through your lines? Neither.
Sam Turner: It did the same if you throw your hat on the floor in anger and stamp on it.
Avian Sandercock: Or just leave it in the back of the gun bus. That's my usual trick.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: That is true. That is true. A collection of hats. What I should do is not mention them on our data. I'm going to do, right, this is what we're going to do. Lost property. I'm going to keep it to the end of the season and then I'm going to put it out there that I've got this wonderful stuff. It's for sale and see if you'll recognise your stuff. I reckon, Avian, there'll be a lot of clothing of yours. to be doing a lot of buying back, doesn't it? Anyhow, so moving down, a smart shirt, you've already alluded to a Tattersall shirt. Some people do wear those, but equally a very plain, definitely not a salmon pink shirt.
Avian Sandercock: So those sort of check, muted coloured check shirts, aren't they?
Jake Woolf: For me, it is a tie on a driven shoot day.
Avian Sandercock: Would you allow a cravat?
Jake Woolf: I would. I would. I think we're friends now, it's not relaxed. It's a very, very smart way of dressing. I do think. And if you can pull a cravat off, and I can think of a couple of our friends who we shoot with regularly through the seasons, they do put it off really smart.
Avian Sandercock: They're also good for the man with a thicker neck.
Jake Woolf: There we go. There we go. I wasn't going to say that, but.
Sam Turner: How do you look at someone who turns up with, you know, so far we've done, they've got the right hat and the right shirt, but they're not wearing a tie.
Jake Woolf: So on a driven day. I would expect everyone to come in a cravat and or a tie on a driven day. On A walked up day, it is seen to be a slightly dressed downer occasion.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's because there's more activity involved, isn't there? If you walked up, which for people who don't know, Driven Day, you stand in line, walked up, you traipse across fields and bracken and brambles and Christ knows what.
Jake Woolf: But Avian, I wear a tie when I'm beating and picking up. So I think if you are on a day, for me, tradition is a big thing. So I wear a tie to honour the fact that whether or not I've been invited as a guest or I've paid for the day or I'm there to work, there is something for me. So I would expect people and or a cravat. So that's my, that's me changing a smart jumper, breathable ideally, micro fleece style with the new kind of materials, but those woolen jumpers that over those big saggy kind of long ones. You're not going to wear that on the front. Oh, Christmas jumper shoot days. Yeah, we've been on those. Yeah, but for me, a jumper is a real kind of, You've gotta look at the time of the year that you're shooting. You're not gonna be wearing one in February, you're not gonna be wearing one in September. You wanna be breathable, you wanna be movable. You don't want to layer up so you can't actually move. And then we look at breeks. I'm a breeks man. I wear my plus fours. Some people like to wear trousers.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, that's an interesting distinction, isn't it? 'Cause I like a brick. Breeks are those silly trousers that stop at the knee. And then I never remember which way round it is for plus fours and plus twos. Is it above 4 inches above the ankle or below the knee? I can never remember. I thought it was. I thought it was stalactites.
Sam Turner: It was +2 hanging down, isn't it? And then plus four and plus sixes.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, I'm cornish, so we don't get to plus 6 below the knee.
Sam Turner: And I think maybe even plus 8.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, they do go to plus eights. I'm more certain of that.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, but I think that's, you know, I'm with you, Jake, I like a bit of dressing up for a driven day. And I think breeks are good, plus fours, plus twos, they can be good. But you do see quite a lot of people now wearing sort of hunting trousers, which are expensive, they're tailored, they kind of look the part. But to me, unless they're stuffed in a Wellington, they're not, I don't know, are they the part? Great for a walked up day, great for stalking.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it, Aven? Because the thing there, mate, is you're going to be wearing wellies. So you're going to be stuffing your trousers down into your boots regardless. So is it comfort, nice trousers over your boots?
Sam Turner: If you're wearing lace-ups, then you're going to be over the top.
Jake Woolf: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Or lace-ups and gaiters. See quite a lot of those.
Jake Woolf: That's what I do now is even a shoot day, I will wear that picking up, definitely beating, hosting, you'll find me and that will be my kit. Only time that I wear boot like wellies or I've got a pair of Dubarrys is when I'm invited on a day. Because I polish them sometimes. Always try and polish your boots. But yeah, it's so then we go down to the socks and boots and wellies. It's about looking smart and there are some wonderful opportunities to really dress smart to the occasion. The question is, do you wear a tweed suit or do you mix and match? Are your trousers the same as your jumper? Are you brand specific?
Sam Turner: Doesn't that depend if you're the owner of the estate, the head keeper, the underkeeper, or the chap who's there to shoot?
Avian Sandercock: Starful guest, yeah.
Jake Woolf: Interesting question. I mean, I see people come to me now and I shoot with people that have got wonderful, wonderful three-piece suits, you know, shooting jackets and breeks, and they look amazing. And other people, they kind of, you know, they've got a pair of technical waterproof dark green plus fours on, but then they've got just a jumper and a I mean, it's interesting.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's how it's evolved, hasn't it? Because originally, the Batu shooting brought over from the continent was, it was very formal. You'd be wearing the trousers because if you wore long trousers, they get wet and they were impossible to dry and covered in mud. which is why you had the long socks and the brogues, so the water would run out. And then you had to have the suspenders to hold your socks up. And I guess what we're seeing now is kind of a modernization of that, but a nod to it, because before it would always be the Norfolk shooting coat, wouldn't it? You wouldn't have a big, heavy overcoat. And I guess it was the Barbour and now all the technical clothes that have made it lighter and allowed people to layer, because if you're in the season from August through to end of January, you've got an awful lot of weather ranges to consider there. If you're out in the grouse moor, I mean, crikey, on the 12th, it was 30 odd degrees up there. And you can be stuck in sort of minus 5 up on the Welsh mountains towards the end of the season. So, you know, there's a lot of that to take into account. I mean, it's been talked about a bit, but is the current trend matching tweed for the gun or mixed tweed for the gun? What about for the staff?
Sam Turner: Is that where you have a state tweed? So the staff will wear a certain tweed so that they all, they're kind of uniform. And I thought it was bad form for a gun to wear matching tweed, which is why I always, that's obviously the reason I never do.
Avian Sandercock: I think if you own the estate, you can wear your tweed wherever the hell you like.
Sam Turner: I think if you own the estate, you can wear what you want.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: It's one of those where you see those estates and all their keepers, they look incredibly smart.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Is that a hat tip to just the tradition and making your, it's no different to me wearing a uniform at work.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, or the crew on a boat or.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, absolutely. Or is the tweed there designed to help blend in? So because there's different colours of tweed.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: Would a tweed, am I right in saying this? It would be used to blend in the keeper teams and what have you to their environments.
Sam Turner: So yeah, it'd be more of a camo than it would anything else.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, because I think don't the grouse tweeds have sort of quite a lot of purple in them to blend in with a heather. Is that a thing?
Jake Woolf: That's what got me saying it, because, you know, we were recording just after, you know, August the 12th, and I was seeing pictures of teams up there, but there's a wide variation of different ones. So I wondered, was that old traditional camouflage to help them blend in?
Avian Sandercock: Yes, and we've got to mention the Chelsea life jacket, haven't we? The fleece gilet, that seems to be de rigueur wherever you go. to them. They're great. They're warm. You can zip them into your coat as an extra layer. And after you've shot, they keep your back warm and you've got pockets for your bits and bobs. And I think that's a great move forward. But at the same time, I am quite partial to, you know, a shooting waistcoat.
Jake Woolf: Okay, so would you wear your waistcoat under your shooting jacket and your coat, or would you wear it over the top of your coat? I'm not saying you should wear your Chelsea life jacket So I'm not saying that you should wear your Chelsea life jacket over the top of your shooting coat, but would you put on a technical shooting vest over the top like the loaders do? And would you look like that?
Avian Sandercock: I'll be very, very honest with you. I wouldn't, but it's not a style thing. I struggle to find a coat that'll zip up without trying to put anything over the top of it. So for me, that's a no. But I get where you're coming from because I think if you don't have a loader, you're going to want to have quick, easy access to cartridges when you're out in the field. I like going out with a big pocket full because the last thing you want to do is be scrabbling on the floor trying to grab a few cartridges out of a muddy cartridge bag.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, quite. Sam, what would you say about that? a kind of a shooting vest over the top of your water.
Sam Turner: No, so I'd wear a shooting vest, but it would be probably on those warmer days, early season days when you've just got a jumper on vest over the top of that. And if it's, obviously when it's dry and the weather allows, but yeah, I wouldn't put an arm over the top of a coat.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So apart from, let's say, jeans and I don't know, a tattered donkey jacket, What would you say is a complete no-no? What's taboo in the shooting line?
Sam Turner: What's a donkey jacket?
Avian Sandercock: You don't know a donkey jacket? Well, I suppose since we don't have an industry anymore, nobody wears them, do they? were a black straight rough coat with leather or vinyl patches on the elbows and the shoulders. So you could carry bags of coal and heavy lumps of wood around and half an MG or a Wolseley.
Jake Woolf: I actually bought one of those with my Christmas money at the sales.
Avian Sandercock: I bet they're worth a fortune now, aren't they? If you could get one on vintage, you make a million.
Jake Woolf: Yeah. To answer your question there, mate, I actually don't think clothing should be a barrier to entry. I've already said that I like people to dress up smartly and to take the day as it should be seen, which is a privilege and an invitation and a respect to your hosts. But if you only had jeans and you had a pair of wellies and you borrowed a coat and it's your first day, you're gonna learn pretty quickly and you're gonna get the bug and you're gonna wanna go into it, so I'd hate for clothing to be a barrier to entry. But I would expect if you can, you would turn up as smartly as you possibly can.
Sam Turner: So effort over a tire.
Avian Sandercock: 100%, 100%. I think we've all shot. I might draw the line of joggers and Crocs. I think we've all seen that chap turn up in the flappy shirt and the battered hat and the faded jeans who shoots like an absolute god. They get a pass, don't they?
Sam Turner: Wow, maybe.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So I mean, moving it on guys, we touched on fishing earlier. I mean, fly fishing. if you break that down into rivers, lakes, salmon and trout, I think there's a degree of etiquette in salmon fishing. I know the few occasions I've been lucky enough to go, you are expected, even under your waders, to be wearing breeks. It's a shirt and a tie. And often the rivers themselves will have a hat. So that's kind of a thing. But I think more and more fishing is going into technicality of clothing. And all of the clothing we're talking about today, movement is one of the key parts to it. You can't be sort of scrunched up in your clothing. You need that sort of flexibility to move your arms and move about the ground you're on. But I don't think fishing necessarily, particularly fly fishing, has that kind of codification to it. if you turned up for a day's fishing and you were just wearing waterproof clothing, you're not going to get turned away, are you? I mean, you need your glasses and your hat just for protection from whizzing flies, but you're not.
Sam Turner: When you said certain rivers have certain hats, does that mean you buy a day on the river and you get given a hat? Or you have to buy a hat.
Avian Sandercock: Before you take your day on the river? big Scottish rivers and the Scottish beats that there are tweeds that match the rivers, but that tends to be more the keepers and the owner of the river. But there is a bit of etiquette that the cognoscenti, the people who know if you're wearing a river spade tweed, they would spot it. But I don't, it's not required, not in any way in the same way that you'd look for it in driven shooting.
Jake Woolf: So I have no idea what to wear if you're fly fishing.
Avian Sandercock: Not A mankini. Sorry.
Jake Woolf: I have one of those. Stag dude 2019. But so much as I did with driven game shooting just a few moments ago, chaps, can you educate me in what I should be wearing when I go to the side of a river and into a river to cast a fly?
Avian Sandercock: Sam.
Sam Turner: Waders.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Obviously, if you're going in, you don't need that if you're just fishing from the bank. It seems to be the thing that you have a special vest that can hold about 100,000 more flies than you ever require.
Avian Sandercock: And scissors and boxes and.
Sam Turner: Scissors and boxes.
Jake Woolf: And why do you need so many flies?
Sam Turner: In my experience, you hook them in trees and then have to cut the end of your leader off to get it out. And then of course you don't catch a fish. And it can't be you not casting in the right place or casting badly. It must be the fault of the fly. So you change the fly.
Avian Sandercock: And you can take 5,000 flies with you and the only one that's catching, you've only got two of and you put the first one in a tree. Yeah. Brilliant.
Jake Woolf: And then the flies all represent all the same fly for that day and you've worked that out or do you have lots of different coloured flies? I've seen those that there are. So I've seen friends that have said, you know, show me pictures of their flies and what have you. They're all different colours, you know, brightly luminescent and that type of thing. So is that what you're taking there for?
Avian Sandercock: Gilly told me years ago that flies catch more fishermen than fish and he's absolutely spot on. I mean, in its purest form, there's a wonderful little book called Match the Hatch. And the idea is you spend your first hour on the river and you look around at what the life going on the top is. You kick over some stones and catch the bugs that are coming out and you have a look at them and there'll be little shrimps and nymphs and flies flying around and things emerging from the river and you do your best to try and match the fly on your line to what you think the fish might be feeding on. So if you're wrong, that's why you change. And unfortunately, trout are a bit of a ******. They can change their minds halfway through. Can they? Okay, that's I think the key thing, as Sam was saying, was you take it with you because if you're wading in the river, the last thing you want to do is keep wading back out again to go and pick something up and going back in. So these jackets, as he said, they're like World War Two life vests. They're enormous with all all these pockets and bits and you can never find what you want. But I think we can go into the complexity of what's in the fly box when we do fly fishing, because again, that's rabbit hole territory.
Sam Turner: It is.
Avian Sandercock: Fair play.
Sam Turner: And a set of polarised sunglasses as well would be an essential.
Avian Sandercock: Why is that? Tell Jake.
Sam Turner: Just so you can, it basically removes the glare from the top of the water. So you see into the water rather than just looking at a reflection of a river bank or a tree or whatever else. So the idea is you see the fish that you're not catching.
Jake Woolf: There we go. So that would be the kitting out for the fishermen.
Avian Sandercock: Yes. And again, I think, the key to the theme running through all of this is the colouration. You're looking for sort of a drab colour, greens, browns, greys, something that isn't going to make you immediately stand out, but also isn't going to make you this big silhouette above the bank of the river or in the river that will spook the fish off.
Jake Woolf: With the Test, would that be a different kind of colouring to say the Avon, and I'm only saying a few rivers that I know, but would you wear different colourings of greys and blues and greens?
Avian Sandercock: I don't think so.
Jake Woolf: Or does it not?
Avian Sandercock: I don't think so. I think you know you wouldn't want to go very, very dark or very, very light. You wouldn't want to go colourful. You kind of just want to be invisible. As Sam said right at the top, whilst it's not strictly speaking camouflage in the way you think the army wears, it's just blending in and just being discreet and you basically want to try and not be there.
Sam Turner: You don't want to have an outline, I think is the same with all of it when it comes to any form of camouflage is removing the outline so that you don't look like a person, pretty much.
Avian Sandercock: And I think with fly fishing, often if you're river fishing for trout, it tends to be a solo affair. And I think it's a little more codified for salmon fishing because there's quite a lot of après-salmon. You'll come out to the clubhouse for breakfast and lunch and you'll meet up with the others. So there's that little bit of when you've taken all your clobber off, you're not wearing t-shirt and pants underneath. Well, I mean, you are underneath, but I think fishing clobber is very techy these days now, isn't it? There's a lot of very, very high, high wear, highly waterproof, breathable materials they're using.
Sam Turner: Is that right?
Jake Woolf: Has it gone a bit too techy, would you say?
Avian Sandercock: No, not for me. I like a bit of techy.
Sam Turner: But I think everything's gone with fishing and with shooting. Everything's gone technical, but it's almost coming round. a bit full circle, as in they're now making the technical fabrics more traditional looking.
Avian Sandercock: Do you like that? Because I know there are a few companies who've done that sort of very, very high tech material that's overprinted with tweed. And to me, it looks like somebody who's taken an MR2 and put a Ferrari Testarossa body kit on it, I think. Go tech and camo. or go tweed. Don't go techie tweed. I don't know, I don't like it. What do you think?
Sam Turner: I think it's nice to nod towards tradition, but I know what you mean by that one that looks like it's just been printed with tweed.
Jake Woolf: I'm going to go with, I like the fact that there's more choice these days. We don't just have to wear that stand up wax jacket that has never been cleaned for 25 years and kind of walks the children to school on its own. But I love the fact that there is now so much choice, a huge amount of choice in men's and ladies clothing. That is equally important now in this kind of, it's at function before fashion. With the sudden kind of upsurge of ladies joining sport and certainly into driven shooting, these companies are now really understanding that it's not one-size-fits-all, I'd say. And I've noticed that between all the companies.
Avian Sandercock: I think ladies have been very keen and very successful fishermen for a long time. And I think in the shooting line, Hopefully it's becoming more prevalent and they're being catered for. It's not, you know, paint it pink and put a feather on it. It's actually well thought through and well produced. I mean, rattling a long time, we touched earlier on deer stalking. You're more of a deer man than the rest of us. I've done a couple of outings, but I mean, lowland deer stalking, stalking in the hills, what's your take on clothing for that? Are there any silly?
Sam Turner: That's all gone very techy, but at the same time, you know, if you're doing hill stalking in Scotland, that tradition of wearing the deerstalker hat and tweed. Again, like we said, that will be matching the environment so you do blend in. But I mean, there's technical stuff now you can wear that just makes you completely invisible. Yes.
Avian Sandercock: And it's tick proof as well, which I think is becoming more and more a really important thing, isn't it? That is nice.
Sam Turner: You know. But so we've worked out that obviously pheasant, partridge, grouse, salmon, and deer do appreciate you wearing a tie sometimes. Track don't give a crap as long as you're wearing something.
Avian Sandercock: Really technical that you've thought about. I wrote a wonderful thing that said, because there's a chap, F. M. Halford, who was the guy who on the chalk stream sort of set out the Bible. of fly fishing. And it just said, the etiquette is the real dress code. And I thought that was possibly one of the most pretentious things I'd ever read.
Sam Turner: Yeah, but what does a duck think?
Avian Sandercock: Quack.
Jake Woolf: We've left one bit out and we need to move that on. Wildfowling, what do you wear on the foreshore?
Avian Sandercock: Well, wildfowling, I think we're straight back to Sam's mucking out the cowl equipment.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: Because you're going to get filthy, aren't you?
Sam Turner: Yeah. It's almost a cross between your fishing gear and your shooting gear, isn't it?
Avian Sandercock: It really is. It really is. Because I think, you know, I mean, I've never done proper wildfowling, but I've seen the guys going out. I mean, they can walk for two or three miles in the dark through, you know, the clumps of marsh grass and little gullies of mud. And sometimes they even wear those sort of big duck feet to stop them sinking in the silt. I mean, it's real dedication stuff.
Sam Turner: Dress like a duck, think like a duck.
Avian Sandercock: Think like a duck. And I shoot like a duck. So there you go.
Jake Woolf: But I guess it's also about keeping warm as well, isn't it? When you're on there. That is very much warm and dry.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's the line through all of this, isn't it? Is comfort, flexibility, warmth and keeping dry and also windproof. I think, you know, I felt fair when we came up to yours, Jake. You know, I was had by Cornish waterproof stuff that was nice and toasty warm, but it wasn't properly windproof and your northeasterly winds cut me in half.
Jake Woolf: They do cut you in half up here, don't they? It's unpleasant.
Avian Sandercock: It is lazy wind, rather than go round you, it goes straight through you.
Jake Woolf: So how many, taking it back to shooting, we are very often invited to come on a driven day and we're gonna finish on the ducks. and we're going to wait for them to come in. We're going to go on a splash and see what's coming in. Do we need to have more than one jacket in the car? You know, is there a one jacket fits all kind of a, should we be looking at Gore-Tex? Should we be looking at a tweed coat? What happens?
Sam Turner: I think as long as you haven't got soaking wet throughout the day, then you just wear the same clobber you have been all day. carry on into the evening, don't you?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I think if you're on the flighting duck, and that's something I love doing, I think, first of all, you hit the nail on the head, you're into darkness, so you've got a bit of a friend there anyway. But I think if on a driven day you are wearing anything flashy, I mean, there's a good friend of ours, isn't there, who likes wearing a turkey on his head? You may want to take that off. And I think the difference there is between driven shooting and all the other disciplines we've talked about and the fishing, is in a driven day, you don't wanna stand out, but you are placed in the middle of a field and birds are flushed over you. Whereas all the other disciplines, you are trying to get into their environment without scaring them. So I think if you do finish with a duck splash, if you've got anything that's a bit garish on, take it off 'cause you really are trying to conceal yourself and just be aware of that. But I think to Sam's point, I always go with two hats, two coats. Because you can get the, you know, we all know the weather report isn't always what is actually gonna happen and there's nothing worse than turning out for the second-half of the day. And this is where some of the technical coats win. The older coats, they end up weighing about 300 weight once they're soaked with water and they're bloody miserable to drag around and you end up smelling like a cheap suit or a wet dog, don't you?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it's got me, it's got me thinking there, like I guess to throw it back to wildfowling there, you wouldn't wear tweed on a wildfowling day, would you? Not with the amount of.
Avian Sandercock: Water you would, but probably only once, and they just put, I don't know, a little cross where you went into the marshes and maybe a bunch of flowers.
Sam Turner: Where you were last seen.
Jake Woolf: So it does become very technical, but I think. It's almost like it's another segue. We're getting better at these, we're really not.
Sam Turner: What's on next week's episode, Jake.
Jake Woolf: And next week's episode is, drum roll please.
Sam Turner: Night fishing. No.
Jake Woolf: We're talking about wildfowling. So I think we can. ring the shop door bell. We can put on... I can't come with God, you've got to help me out here. We've got to try and get these endings better.
Avian Sandercock: We've done a very, very brief run through sort of things that worn in the countryside. I think there's been a lot said about the history of it and what Tweed is and all this sort of stuff. And I don't think there was much point in us doing that. But hopefully, For the people listening, you've got sort of an overview that there's a general theme, but there are some weird bits. And I think it is that odd thing that anyone who goes driven shooting of any form kind of wants to dress as an Edwardian. It's the pantomime fancy dress in all British people. But I'm really looking forward to getting stuck into wildfowling because this is something I don't know much about. There's a big estuary down the road from us. I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to go out in the middle of the night paddling through mud. but we'll do a bit of homework. We'll talk to a few people and I'm really, really looking forward to doing that one. Sam, where can people find us? What can they do to help us? What's our socials, all that sort of stuff.
Sam Turner: They can find all of that in the show notes. They can find us on Instagram, Fish and Game Podcast and part of the Side Country Network. Make sure you do like, comment and subscribe when you listen to these.
Avian Sandercock: And give us those five star reviews, please.
Sam Turner: Yes, obviously only if you like them.
Avian Sandercock: No, just give it to them.
Sam Turner: But if you've got this far, you know, you probably do like them or you have things broke and you can't switch us off. Yeah, and you can find us on our socials, which I think everything will be in the show notes.
Avian Sandercock: That's fantastic, gents. Thanks very much for that. Hope that's been enjoyable. Catch us next week where we are going to be wild about foul. Guys, we're going to go and have to get muddy and find out about wildfowling.
Sam Turner: Yeah, we're not going to end on puns. Go on then. No, I can't think of any.
Avian Sandercock: Well, that's why we're not ending on puns, Dirk. Right.
Jake Woolf: I'm bored of you.
Sam Turner: Goodbye.
Jake Woolf: Have a good week, chaps.