What exactly counts as wildfowling? Is it any pursuit of wild ducks and geese, or does it only become wildfowling once you are cold, wet, deep in estuary mud and questioning your life choices?
Jake Woolf, Avian Sandercock and Sam Turner attempt to get to the bottom of one of Britain’s oldest and most demanding forms of shooting.
They look at the traditional world of foreshore wildfowling: early starts, evening flights, shifting tides, slippery mud, quarry identification and the importance of joining a club whose members know how to get safely onto and off the marsh.
The conversation also covers the dogs, guns, cartridges, calls, decoys and clothing involved; why a synthetic semi-automatic may be more useful than Grandfather’s best gun; and whether a muddy Labrador is easier to clean than a spaniel.
There is also a look back at the formidable punt guns once used by commercial wildfowlers, before attention turns to the most important question of all: what should you do with a duck or goose once you have brought it home?
Plus duck cooked over coals, smoked goose, wildfowl burgers, questionable jerky experiments, Teflon Labradors, baritone chickadees and the familiar suggestion that a badly cooked Canada goose may be less appetising than the brick beneath it.
In this episode:
- What wildfowling is — and whether mud is an essential part of the definition
- Why traditional wildfowling is closely associated with marshes, estuaries and the foreshore
- How clubs manage access, sporting rights, mentoring and local safety
- The importance of understanding tides and learning an unfamiliar marsh from experienced members
- Recognising legal quarry before taking a shot
- Why Labradors are so closely associated with wildfowling
- Calls, decoys and attracting ducks and geese
- Why electronic bird calls cannot be used
- Choosing a robust shotgun and suitable non-lead ammunition
- Why an inexpensive synthetic semi-automatic may be a practical choice
- The history and extraordinary scale of punt guns
- Clothing, communications and emergency planning on the foreshore
- Why newcomers should not venture onto unfamiliar tidal ground alone
- Keeping both wildfowler and dog warm in difficult conditions
- Cooking duck and goose over fire, in a wok, as burgers, smoked or made into charcuterie
- Why Avian may finally have talked himself into trying wildfowling
- BASC introduction to wildfowling
- BASC wildfowling permits, handbook and code of practice
- BASC guide to quarry species and open seasons
- UK Government guidance on hunting and shooting wildlife
- The Crown Estate — wildfowling and foreshore sporting rights
Please note: Wildfowling law, quarry lists and local restrictions can change. Always check current government guidance and the rules of the club or land over which you are shooting.
Part of the SideCountry Network.
This transcript was generated using AI and may contain minor errors.
Richard Prideaux: Coming up on Fish and Game.
Jake Woolf: They almost move around like starlings. Yeah. They fly like that.
Sam Turner: What's the one I've seen they do up in Scotland where you're kind of lying in a coffin half buried in the ground?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I do wonder, when he finally reaches puberty, whether we'll have sort of baritone chickadees or, you know, the bass-tenor blue jay.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a duck?
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a wild duck?
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a livid goose?
Avian Sandercock: He was a bit perturbed.
Sam Turner: Wildfowling, boys. Wildfowling, wildfowling, wildfowling.
Jake Woolf: What are we doing this week?
Sam Turner: Wildfowling, believe it or not.
Avian Sandercock: This is something I know very little about. I've seen it done and, yes, I've shot duck, but why did you ask, ‘Have you shot a duck?’ and then, ‘Have you shot a wild duck?’ I mean, I have, but mainly not by design. What's the massive — what's the big difference?
Sam Turner: I think that's probably what we need to get to the bottom of in this episode is what is wildfowling? So obviously you wouldn't class a driven duck day as wildfowling.
Avian Sandercock: No.
Sam Turner: Would you class standing next to a flight pond that you've been feeding in the evening? Is that wildfowling?
Avian Sandercock: I'd say no.
Sam Turner: So that's wild duck coming in.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Or are you saying wildfowling is purely up to your bollocks in mud out in the dark?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. See, my picture in my head of wildfowling is really working hard for your supper. It is that, out on the foreshore. Because I think you can shoot wild duck on a flighting pond or a fed pond anywhere in the country. But I think, to me, wildfowling is getting out on the marshes or on the estuaries.
Sam Turner: Is it not just any wildfowl?
Avian Sandercock: [unclear].
Jake Woolf: So what is — explain to me what wildfowl is. I'm with Dave on this. I'm very, very limited. I know ducks, but what is wildfowl?
Sam Turner: What species wise?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, I mean.
Sam Turner: Mallard, wigeon, teal, tufted ducks.
Jake Woolf: So is it anything, Sam, that sieves through? Is it because they're a type of breed, they have a type of — they sieve their food? Is it because they sit on the water, or they go...?
Avian Sandercock: Is it a habitat thing?
Sam Turner: Well, it potentially is a habitat thing, and that's why I asked the question. If it's on a fed pond, it's still a wild duck or wildfowl — a wild goose coming in. So that's technically wildfowling.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I mean, it's wildfowl, but I think wildfowling is — God, we're getting lost in words. I think wildfowling is traditionally, and if you asked a wildfowler they'd say, no, you're out on the foreshore, you're between the tidal range and you're working for your supper.
Jake Woolf: So it wouldn't be... I had an understanding that it might be that they live around the water and would traditionally be hunted as game.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, they were hunting for the table, weren't they?
Jake Woolf: That's — yeah. But I wasn't sure, so I was leaning on my two compadres here to lead me, if I'm perfectly honest.
Avian Sandercock: You really want us to lead you anywhere? That's very dangerous, Jake. We could lead you right up the garden path.
Jake Woolf: You could have said anything, I would have believed you.
Avian Sandercock: Did.
Sam Turner: So if we're talking foreshore, then, that is mostly club-controlled stuff.
Avian Sandercock: I think it is, from what I've looked at, because historically the foreshore — and we've got a lot of that down here, Duchy land — I think the point between the spring high tide and the lowest low tide is owned by either the Crown or certain landed gentry around the country. So the rights of access are very, very different. And I think it's a bit like a lot of ground you'll shoot over having sporting rights attached to it. Somebody owns the right to shoot there; or, on a river, a club or an individual will own the riparian rights. So, you know, I may own the river physically.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: Well, you know, like you, Sam, the river that runs through your farm, you may actually own it and the land around it. But you might not actually own the rights to fish on it. Somebody else might have the riparian rights. So I think the right to shoot on the foreshore for wildfowling is owned by the landowner and they lease that generally to clubs because obviously the money involved has to be split between a club to make it work.
Sam Turner: Yeah, a lot of people, yeah. So are you a member of a club?
Avian Sandercock: No.
Sam Turner: Or have you got a club local to you?
Avian Sandercock: Yes. Yeah, there's a couple, actually. I mean, the nearest one to us is on the Camel Estuary, the Wadebridge Wildfowling Association or club. And they're quite active, actually. But I've looked at the Camel Estuary, I've kayaked up and down the Camel, and it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yards of syrupy, slippery mud and deep gullies. And, you know, I'm only four foot three and a half. I'd either sink or get lost, or maybe in 200 years they'd dig me up and think they'd found a new henge. So I've never really got involved with it.
Sam Turner: Fair enough. And is it something you want to get involved in? Let's drum up a bit of appetite.
Avian Sandercock: Having done a bit of digging around for this episode, I kind of do.
Sam Turner: Oh, good.
Avian Sandercock: I kind of fancy the idea.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: So what would you be going out for? What's a species list?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I mean, there is a prescribed species list, but broadly speaking you're out there targeting duck or geese. Without going down the whole list of what's in and what's out, I think we can post that in the show notes for people who are interested. But broadly speaking, it's duck and goose, and they tend to be coming in to feed in the morning or late in the evening. So that's where you need to position yourself. And, talking to some of the lads, you might end up with a bonus woodcock or a snipe — something coming in on those similar flight lines — but you're basically there in the half-light at either end of the day, targeting duck and geese.
Sam Turner: So you're probably best getting up early, getting out during the dark to get into your, get set up in your place ready for when it starts to get light.
Avian Sandercock: But yeah, I think very much the sort of the similar timelines to deer stalking.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, that's really interesting, because we're very lucky on the East Coast here. We've got some incredible wildfowling opportunities, from the Wash all the way round to the Thames. It is incredible. It's something I haven't done, but I'll share a story with you both. When I was getting into this journey of shooting, I visited a local game fair. I almost signed myself up to the local wildfowling club and got talking to them, because they were the only ones who would really give me the time of day and answer all the questions I had about how to get into it. But I never joined the club, just because it was so daunting to be going out with just one other person.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: And I just — they were brilliant. We've got the Fenland Wildfowlers Association, and they were so helpful.
Avian Sandercock: We have got a lot of marshes around you. I mean, like you said, the whole of the Wash, the Essex marshes — there are some fantastic places around there. I suppose you've got to avoid — going back to last week, something Garry said was you probably don't want to go in the bird reserves. That might be frowned upon.
Sam Turner: There's actually one down here, because we've got Seaton Wetlands, which is a nature reserve run by a very well-known bird-protection charity, and they've got a boardwalk thing that goes out to this wooden island where you can watch birds.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: And I've gone out there on more than one occasion and thought this would be stunning. You wouldn't have to get wet. You could go out there. It's got a roof. You'd be shooting everything like grouse. It'd be awesome.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's a birdwatching hide, mate. I think that would be severely frowned upon. And I guess the good thing about a club, to your point, Jake — and it's something I talked to the Wadebridge boys about at an open day and wasn't tempted enough to try; probably the same reason as you, I wimped out — is you've got people who know the ground, because it is treacherous. Tides are dangerous. They are.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: You need somebody who knows where they're going, what the conditions are like and what the tide times are going to be, because you've got areas where it's safe to go and other areas where it's quicksand or very deep mud that you mustn't go into. I don't think it's something you'd want to do on a whim: just grab your Beretta and your wellies and go for a stomp down the salt marshes. You'd want a club, and I guess they give you training and insurance and all that sort of stuff to boot. And, as you said, Jake, give you a guide — somebody to hold your hand for the first few trips.
Sam Turner: Well, and most of the season for duck and geese runs basically in line with partridge season, doesn't it? Kind of the first of September to the end of January. And then is it the 20th of February below the high-water mark?
Jake Woolf: I believe that's correct.
Sam Turner: For foreshore shooting.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: So you're gonna be, it's likely that it's gonna be cold.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: So you do need appropriate clothing.
Avian Sandercock: Below high water mark goes on to the 20th of Feb, doesn't it? Yeah.
Jake Woolf: But equally, I guess if you're going with a club, as you mentioned there about the safety and the tides and everything like that, and you touched on quarry ID, they're going to identify the quarry. We're allowed to shoot the mallard, teal, wigeon or pintail going through, but they can make sure that you don't go and shoot something like a shelduck. I mean, when those geese come through, the last thing you want to do is shoot something like a goosander. You're in trouble.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, you don't want a bag of puffin, do you? I like a bit of twitching, a bit of birdwatching, but I know I'm not very good at ducks. So I think you're absolutely right to have somebody there, even if they just give you the nod: ‘Yeah, that's quarry that's safe to shoot,’ or, ‘Guns down, lads, not that one.’ That would take a lot of the collywobbles away, wouldn't it?
Jake Woolf: And with the geese, chaps, coming off the foreshore in Norfolk, we have so many geese coming in to feed. I mean, they almost move around like starlings.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: They fly like that. Is it called rumination?
Avian Sandercock: Murmuration. There we go. Thank you, Av. I knew you would help. And it's one of those where, as long as they're not a swan, we can take greylags, Canadas, the pinkfoots and the white-fronts. But I guess: is wildfowling on geese still wildfowling if you're in a farmer's field a mile away from the shore — two miles away, five or ten miles?
Jake Woolf: Murmuration. There we go. Thank you, Av. I knew you would help. And it's one of those where, as long as they're not a swan, we can take greylags, Canadas, the pinkfoots and the white-fronts. But I guess: is wildfowling on geese still wildfowling if you're in a farmer's field a mile away from the shore — two miles away, five or ten miles?
Sam Turner: I don't know. What's the one I've seen they do up in Scotland where you're kind of lying in a coffin, half buried in the ground?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, they do that a lot in Orkney, don't they? I think that's the pink-foot. I mean, some of that is a bit of vermin control. To me, that's more decoying. I could be wrong — I'm often wrong — but I really think wildfowling involves mud. Darkness and mud. That's my descriptor.
Jake Woolf: I like that. Yeah, so you've sold it to me. But you've shot one, and you're going to need a very, very good dog, aren't you? Are we taking out Labradors? Obviously, because I love a Lab.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's what Labradors were bred for, isn't it?
Sam Turner: Yeah, I'll join you on Labradors. Definitely a Lab.
Jake Woolf: You wouldn't have a cocker out there, would you?
Avian Sandercock: Oh, God, no.
Jake Woolf: I'm sure people would say they would, but you're going to need something bred for it, something big.
Avian Sandercock: Well, I think it's more a case of, having both, it's much, much easier to wash a Lab than a springer. And I think if you've got a springer in foreshore mud, just buy another springer — just leave it to fend for itself. You've got a nice Teflon Labrador, a wipe-down Lab. But I think you're right, because you're going to want the dog to spot birds. If you're looking at driven shooting, walked-up — the usual sort of game shooting that we're familiar with — your ranges are going to be fairly controlled. Whereas with wildfowling, you're in a massive expanse of flat land on the foreshore. You've got birds coming in at all sorts of different heights and speeds. You could be dropping a bird 30 or 40 yards away that runs into a gully or falls into a gully. And how the hell do you spot that? You need a dog to help you mark it and hopefully bring it back in the dark.
Jake Woolf: Yeah. You're going to need them to be very, very capable of getting out there, aren't you? And to be able to send and find and retrieve, I guess. These aren't small animals, especially if you're on the geese. So you're going to want something that can.
Sam Turner: They are hefty.
Avian Sandercock: And I think you're going to need to look at your kit as well, aren't you? I mean, you certainly wouldn't want to take your dainty little 20-bore side by side with you.
Sam Turner: No, not taking Grandfather's Purdey out, are you?
Jake Woolf: Oh, before you get into guns, because I know this is where we're heading, but what about decoying in wildfowling? We have done that on the geese in Norfolk, inland and stuff. I've seen that done. But would you go out on the foreshore and put a load of decoys out, like you would for pigeons?
Avian Sandercock: I think you've got to look at what you can carry.
Sam Turner: You wouldn't put your spinner out there.
Avian Sandercock: And I think there are some brilliant decoys now. I think they're called Sillosocks: they fold flat and they're just material. As you put them out, the wind gets into them and puffs them out. So you could probably take half a dozen of those in your bag. But you wouldn't want to be carrying — if you're pigeon shooting, you'll have maybe 20 or 30 full-bodied plastic pigeon decoys — because it's just you and Shanks's pony, isn't it? Everything you take out, you've got to carry on your back and make room for, hopefully...
Sam Turner: You know, you've got to raise a brace of duck for the table.
Jake Woolf: So, without doing my Daffy and Donald Duck impression with the old ‘wag, wag, wag’, I've seen that there are different callers.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Have you guys got one? I don't, but I'm assuming you almost set out: ‘I'm going for some pinkfeet today,’ or, ‘I'm going on the wigeon this evening.’ Would you have an individual caller?
Avian Sandercock: I've seen it with dedicated good wildfowlers that go out with like a necklace with various different callers on because I mean in the UK we can use electronic calls for foxes and things like that, but it's illegal to use an electronic caller for birds. So yeah, you have to have a manual caller and they are, some of them are exquisite. I think particularly in the States, hand carved callers and decoys and things are massive collector's items. But yeah, you'd have a different caller for different quarry species.
Jake Woolf: Do you know what, chaps? I think we're going to have to have a go at this and record it for our socials. We're going to have to try and go and get...
Avian Sandercock: That's a specific audience, isn't it?
Jake Woolf: No, the duck calling you. They don't want to see hippos wallowing in mud.
Sam Turner: Is it in Finland or Germany or somewhere they have the deer calling, do your best stag rutting roar.
Avian Sandercock: And they do it just with their voices.
Sam Turner: They have a competition, don't they?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Are we going to have a duck off?
Avian Sandercock: Careful.
Jake Woolf: I saw this young lad in America who can pretty much impersonate any bird call. He has some learning difficulties and he has turned that difficulty into something which is so cool. We're going to share his videos on social media and you guys can have a look at our Stories, because, quite frankly, how good would it be — as long as he was up for it — to take him out and also learn from him? That would never happen, but there must be some people out there who could give us some lessons. Maybe they could email in and they could...
Avian Sandercock: Brilliant, e-mail in your best duck call.
Jake Woolf: Or give us some tips — anything like that. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, we'd love to, actually. Spot on. Email in your best.
Sam Turner: I think Instagram us a video of you doing your best.
Avian Sandercock: Oh, charming down the ducks. Fantastic. I did wonder about that lad in the States, and I agree with you. I think he's worked so hard on that. But I do wonder, when he finally reaches puberty, whether we'll have sort of baritone chickadees or, you know, the bass-tenor blue jay. I wonder what's going to happen there.
Jake Woolf: Well, we'll wait and see, but do message us on Instagram and send in your duck calls. Send us some voice notes on there.
Sam Turner: We could even promise a really crap prize.
Avian Sandercock: Oh, we've got loads.
Jake Woolf: No, don't go down that route.
Avian Sandercock: Can we do guns now? Please can we do guns?
Jake Woolf: Let's do the guns. Yeah. So you mentioned you wouldn't take a little 20-bore. You're going to want something with some thump, aren't you?
Avian Sandercock: I would think so. Sam, what would you suggest? Come on, you're our armourer for the day. What do we need?
Sam Turner: You're definitely using a semi-auto, aren't you?
Avian Sandercock: I think so.
Sam Turner: Something horrible and synthetic. You don't want to take any nice wood out there. And you also need something that's going to be able to chamber three-inch cartridges, don't you? Because we are all steel. We are non-lead, sorry.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, has been for years.
Sam Turner: Has been for a long time. And big shot because like you say, they're not necessarily like a driven bird that's going to be coming over you at 40 yards. These can be way up there and take a lot of bringing down.
Avian Sandercock: Well, geese are big animals, aren't they?
Jake Woolf: So what you're saying is that I've got to ask Mrs Woolf if I can buy another shotgun, because...
Sam Turner: I don't have a semi-auto. Buy another shotgun, then ask after you've done it.
Avian Sandercock: Yes. It is always better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
Sam Turner: Yes.
Jake Woolf: So I fully agree with that and I do live by that rule. So how much am I spending chaps on a new semi-auto? You said a synthetic. I've seen those for about 350 pounds.
Sam Turner: I've got a semi-auto that cost me 150 quid. And it is the finest Turkish piece of plastic ever.
Avian Sandercock: And I think when you're starting out, that's all you need, isn't it?
Sam Turner: As long as it's reliable. It is. As long as it cycles a cartridge. What you'll find with most cheaper semi-autos is they won't cycle — if you take it out and you're shooting 21-gram clay loads, they struggle to cycle. Whereas when you're shooting big 34- or 36-gram steel loads...
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, 50 gram Magnum loads.
Sam Turner: Yeah, that's it. They've they've no problem chucking the next cartridge in for that.
Avian Sandercock: I think also they handle that recoil so much better you can have.
Sam Turner: It's a lot more comfortable.
Avian Sandercock: With gas and compression perhaps built in. And I think also, you know, we all talk about cleaning your gun after a day's shooting, but to be honest it's a little puff of oil and a gentle wipe-down with a chamois rag. Whereas these things, you're going to pretty much have to put the hose on them and get all the silt and mud off. So they've got to be robust. And if you're starting out, don't spend your money on a massively expensive gun, because you're going to drop it in. It's seawater as well, so you're going to get corrosion; you're going to get it in the mud. You want a synthetic stock. And I think, if it becomes your thing, then look at stepping up and having a better tool, definitely. So, Sam, you were talking about bigger loads. What sort of shot size are we looking at? For game shooting we'll maybe occasionally go to a No. 4 for high birds in the winter, but what are we looking at for duck and geese?
Sam Turner: I mean, duck, because you're going to be on non-toxic, you're probably going to be on No. 4 or 3 for most of it. Geese — I've taken geese out with BB.
Avian Sandercock: BB, bloody hell. I've only used those as fishing weights.
Sam Turner: So it's big, big loads.
Avian Sandercock: Big stuff.
Jake Woolf: They are big through a 12. They are some solid bombs, aren't they? But calibre-wise, now I've held a four-bore before.
Avian Sandercock: I wouldn't want to carry it across the marsh.
Jake Woolf: No, I wouldn't either. This thing was insane. However, I have seen something called a punt gun.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, that's definitely more your part of the world, isn't it — punt guns? But I think punt guns were banned, am I right in saying, in the fifties? That was very much a commercial punt gunner shooting for the market. That was shooting to earn money to feed his family. They'd have a punt, a low skiff boat. And the guns on them, I think they were one-bore or zero-bore. They fire a pound of lead.
Jake Woolf: Wow.
Sam Turner: What, just a single shot?
Avian Sandercock: Single shot. The punt gun itself is a cannon, basically. They're about six to 12 feet long. No, it's shot, but there's a pound of it. When you think your average game load is an ounce — and I think my imperial is right: is it 16 ounces in a pound? — you're basically firing 16 cartridges at once. The idea was that the punt gunner would lie face down in the boat — these very low-beamed punts, little skiff boats — with a gun mounted in the middle of it. He'd have these little paddles and he'd basically paddle out to where a group of ducks or geese were sitting on the water and try to creep up to them. Then he'd launch this pound of lead through his cannon and kill 20, 30 or 40 at a time.
Jake Woolf: And then go and collect them and bring them back to market. I think that's possibly why they were...
Avian Sandercock: And then go and collect them and bring them back to market. I think that's possibly why they were...
Jake Woolf: They were banned in the 50s. I would say even the people in the 50s, it must have been pretty bad.
Avian Sandercock: We were still fairly keen on anthrax in the 50s, weren't we?
Jake Woolf: So, with the guns, I guess they haven't changed for so long — obviously, take the punt gun out of the way. Modernising is like moving to the semi-auto. It amazes me how these things haven't really changed. You've got three cartridges, though, haven't you, with a semi-auto? Not two. I mean, you can have more as well, can't you?
Avian Sandercock: You can have more, but I think generally for wildfowling, if you start putting more cartridges in, the whole thing's going to get heavier and less nimble. It's like in the States, where you see on videos they'll decoy in 450 geese and then they've all got 12-shot 12-bores and just unleash shot on them and take them all out. I think in the UK there's obviously quite a bit of etiquette and sport to it. I don't think many wildfowlers would shoot a duck or a goose on the water. It's very much in flight.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: And as we all know, you know, my little three shot 20-bore for pigeons, they're a bit of a cartridge waster because if you can't hit it with two, do you really need that third one just to give it the proper hurry up?
Sam Turner: Well, you need to try and explain to your firearms officer. Without sounding mad that I need a FAC 12-shot shotgun so that I can shoot ducks like they do in America.
Avian Sandercock: He may frown, he or she may frown on that.
Sam Turner: They might, yeah.
Avian Sandercock: And I think, you know, on a game shoot you may take maybe 50 shots, maybe more on a busy day. I'd guess, on wildfowling, you don't want to shoot too many because you've got to carry them back. You don't have pickers-up and you don't have a game cart. I think if you shoot two greylag geese, you're probably done.
Sam Turner: They are heavy. I did drop one on someone's vehicle once and it made quite a mess of it.
Avian Sandercock: Quite the hole. So what kind of kit do we need then guys? If we're going to go out in the mud, we've done guns, we've got a dog, what else are we going to need?
Sam Turner: Clothing's going to be an important one, but I think we've kind of covered that already, haven't we?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So something you don't mind getting ruined, I guess, but it's got to be waterproof, windproof, comfortable and drab.
Sam Turner: Do you need, I mean obviously we're all going out at first, we're going to speak to somebody who's knowledgeable about this stuff and go out with them. But when it gets to the stage where you're going out by yourself, I guess it's a good idea to tell somebody you're going out and where you're going. Just in case something happens.
Avian Sandercock: Totally. Yeah.
Sam Turner: Are we GPS things?
Jake Woolf: I was just thinking that. Yeah. Would you have your Garmin watch or would you ping out a location from your phone to someone trusted or turn on locations devices or?
Avian Sandercock: I think all of that is definitely valid. I think, again, just be aware you are in salt water. Make sure it's either rated for salt water or it's kept in a waterproof bag and don't rely on it because you know you can be without signal or...
Jake Woolf: What about a flare? Sam, what do you reckon too? Would you take out a flare gun or it's there and please excuse a bit of a novice. This isn't a silly question. Can you get a cartridge that can be a tracer to warn or flare up to the sky? Is that possible? I don't know. So, would you carry a flare gun first of all, and is there something that you can have in a cartridge that could make people aware of?
Sam Turner: I don't think they do anything in the cartridge, but you can get those. You don't even need a flare gun now, do you? Can get those almost just those little tubes.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, they're like those.
Sam Turner: Little emergency flare things if you wanted one of those.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I think that that's in extremis. That would be belt and braces, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that as an idea.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: But I think it's just be safe. I mean, you should be going out on your first couple of trips with a guy. And I think somebody in the club will clue you in what your particular piece of foreshore needs. I mean, there are guys who go out with paddles on their feet because it's particularly sloshy. But I think if you're warm and dry, welly boots. And again, I think of something for the dog because you'll be sat in a muddy hole.
Jake Woolf: I was going to mention about that.
Avian Sandercock: Maybe considering neoprene for the dog?
Sam Turner: I've seen those neoprene vest kind of things you can get for a dog that will just help them keep warm.
Jake Woolf: Friends who are wildfowlers wouldn't go out without them for their dogs, making sure that they're warm. I do know that in the clubs around here, you have to let the WhatsApp group know that you're going out.
Avian Sandercock: That's a good shout.
Jake Woolf: And so they all know straight away and you drop a pin and if you've lost a bird. Then you almost try and drop that pin using what3words?
Avian Sandercock: Okay.
Jake Woolf: And so the use of the app what3words has become very popular in wildfowling. Yeah, certainly for the clubs around here.
Avian Sandercock: I think one thing to mention on what3words — it's something Richard Prideaux is keen to talk about — is don't rely on what3words to get you out of trouble. It'll tell them exactly where you are, but it won't give them any advice as to how to get to you. And I think his other point was it's better to have part of a map reference than wrongly pronounced or misheard three words. If you've got a bit of a map reference, you know roughly where somebody is. Whereas, if you've got ‘potato, orange, castle’ and somebody mishears ‘potato’, it doesn't get you anywhere close. So bear that in mind. It's good for marking, but not for recovering. Well, look, guys, I think I'm leaning more towards giving this a go, but the most important thing I want to talk about now is: we've got our duck. I want to bloody eat it. Who's got recipes for ducks or geese?
Sam Turner: Geese just used to pull the guts out, pluck them, chuck them in the oven. And it was very much a lottery because some would be delicious and some would be absolutely rancid. But you couldn't tell until you'd cooked it. Some just tasted like seaweed. I guess it all depends on what they've been eating and bits like that.
Avian Sandercock: Because I do always say with Canada geese, the old thing is that you place a brick in the bottom of a pan, add loads of vegetables, put your goose in, roast your goose, throw it all away and eat the brick.
Sam Turner: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Definitely. Have either of you had goose for Christmas?
Avian Sandercock: We did once. It was very, very good fun to do, but there's, I think we all thought it was going to be turkey size when it was finished. And there's so much fat on them, they do render down to not very much.
Sam Turner: Yeah, I did. It wasn't a wild goose, but I did one of those three-bird ones, which was...
Avian Sandercock: A, I want to say it was a turducken.
Sam Turner: A partridge inside a duck inside a goose. Anyway, Christmas dinner was about four hours late because I kept putting that temperature probe into it and it wasn't hot enough.
Jake Woolf: What about you, Jake?
Avian Sandercock: Have you got any crafty BBQ ideas or favourite way to have duck?
Jake Woolf: So it's a really good one that you can cook over coals — hot flames, a bit of fire cookery. You take your duck breast and cut it off, but make sure you keep the fat, okay? Then you want to sear the fat first, flash-fry it and cook it up to temperature. A meat probe is a very, very good bit of kit for any kind of cooking outside — you know this — because you don't want horrible food poisoning. Sear the fat, turn it over and sear that again, then slice it and have it nice and pink. But what you can be doing then is either a redcurrant jus, or orange — duck à l'orange. You can take some marmalade, reduce that down and pour it over. What I would do is take some potatoes and have them on a skillet, frying over the fire in cast iron, with a bit of rosemary and maybe some other herbs as well. Then, very simply, serve it sliced with either your redcurrant jus or your orange-marmalade jus, with the potatoes you've made. But if you can get some sloe-gin and redcurrant jelly, use that. That's very, very nice as well.
Avian Sandercock: I think that sounds like a bloody good idea. There's one I'm going to chuck in, which I'm going to give a go. If I can get a goose, I'm going to hand it over to young Samuel and see if he can make us some goose jerky, or even hot-smoke or cold-smoke it.
Sam Turner: Would goose be a bit too fatty for jerky?
Avian Sandercock: I don't know. Let's find out.
Sam Turner: There's only one way to find out.
Avian Sandercock: What about goose burgers if they're fatty? But I think smoked goose sounds good.
Sam Turner: Smoked duck is lovely. Another easy, quick and easy one. Jake, your recipe for duck sounded nice, but a quick and easy one I do with duck is literally either cut it into strips or cube it in a hot wok. Noodles, hoisin sauce, done.
Jake Woolf: All very nice.
Sam Turner: I bet that would be. Something like that. Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, I think if we did, I don't know, could you do duck burgers and goose sausages?
Sam Turner: I don't see why not.
Jake Woolf: Do a wildfowl burger. And can you charcuterie them as well, I wonder? Then you'd have very nice goose salami. And I'm going to throw in pâté. Are we?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I think goose liver pate is a classic, isn't it?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it was.
Avian Sandercock: And I think a goose has probably got a big enough liver to make it worth your while having a go.
Sam Turner: Definitely.
Avian Sandercock: Lads, I think that has actually turned the corner. I'm going to give this a go, I think.
Jake Woolf: We can have some fun here.
Sam Turner: I think the BASC are the first port of call when it comes to wildfowling, because I think they've got good links to get people involved in wildfowling. So it's definitely, if there's anyone out there now that after listening to us waffle on for half an hour about it, wants to go and do it, get in touch with your local BASC office and they'll point you in the right direction.
Avian Sandercock: That is fantastic. Well, boys, I think that is pretty much time to put your head torch on, paddle out of the mud, bring your geese with you, get the dog warm and dry and fed, and we shall bugger off. Next, I think we're going to be tackling Jake's need to become a beginning fly-fisher person. So it's time to get your shooting heads out. Time to get your tippets.
Sam Turner: Why have you got to keep on asking me this question?
Avian Sandercock: Because you're the only one who remembers it.
Sam Turner: It's all in the show notes, but you can find us on our website, which is in the show notes. Fish and Game on Instagram, part of the SideCountry Network, also on Instagram, and our own socials on there as well. I'm sure we'll pop up somewhere. Don't forget to like. Give us a nice five-star review on the podcast and subscribe. That would be great. And then you don't miss any, which you wouldn't want to.
Avian Sandercock: And don't forget to Instagram us your duck calls. I think that would be great.
Jake Woolf: Definitely. And if you do have any recipes as well, let's have some recipes and tag us in your cookery. So if you're making a goose burger, if you're making a duck sausage or anything like that, we want to see it. Tag us.
Avian Sandercock: Fantastic. That's been amazing. Jake, I'm sure you're bored of us.
Jake Woolf: I am. I'm bored of you. Bye.
Avian Sandercock: Thanks, everybody. We're out.
Jake Woolf: Have a great week. Take care, guys.
Richard Prideaux: Coming up on Fish and Game.
Jake Woolf: They almost move around like starlings. Yeah. They fly like that.
Sam Turner: What's the one I've seen they do up in Scotland where you're kind of lying in a coffin half buried in the ground?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I do wonder, when he finally reaches puberty, whether we'll have sort of baritone chickadees or, you know, the bass-tenor blue jay.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a duck?
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a wild duck?
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: Ever shot a livid goose?
Avian Sandercock: He was a bit perturbed.
Sam Turner: Wildfowling, boys. Wildfowling, wildfowling, wildfowling.
Jake Woolf: What are we doing this week?
Sam Turner: Wildfowling, believe it or not.
Avian Sandercock: This is something I know very little about. I've seen it done and, yes, I've shot duck, but why did you ask, ‘Have you shot a duck?’ and then, ‘Have you shot a wild duck?’ I mean, I have, but mainly not by design. What's the massive — what's the big difference?
Sam Turner: I think that's probably what we need to get to the bottom of in this episode is what is wildfowling? So obviously you wouldn't class a driven duck day as wildfowling.
Avian Sandercock: No.
Sam Turner: Would you class standing next to a flight pond that you've been feeding in the evening? Is that wildfowling?
Avian Sandercock: I'd say no.
Sam Turner: So that's wild duck coming in.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Or are you saying wildfowling is purely up to your bollocks in mud out in the dark?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. See, my picture in my head of wildfowling is really working hard for your supper. It is that, out on the foreshore. Because I think you can shoot wild duck on a flighting pond or a fed pond anywhere in the country. But I think, to me, wildfowling is getting out on the marshes or on the estuaries.
Sam Turner: Is it not just any wildfowl?
Avian Sandercock: [unclear].
Jake Woolf: So what is — explain to me what wildfowl is. I'm with Dave on this. I'm very, very limited. I know ducks, but what is wildfowl?
Sam Turner: What species wise?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, I mean.
Sam Turner: Mallard, wigeon, teal, tufted ducks.
Jake Woolf: So is it anything, Sam, that sieves through? Is it because they're a type of breed, they have a type of — they sieve their food? Is it because they sit on the water, or they go...?
Avian Sandercock: Is it a habitat thing?
Sam Turner: Well, it potentially is a habitat thing, and that's why I asked the question. If it's on a fed pond, it's still a wild duck or wildfowl — a wild goose coming in. So that's technically wildfowling.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I mean, it's wildfowl, but I think wildfowling is — God, we're getting lost in words. I think wildfowling is traditionally, and if you asked a wildfowler they'd say, no, you're out on the foreshore, you're between the tidal range and you're working for your supper.
Jake Woolf: So it wouldn't be... I had an understanding that it might be that they live around the water and would traditionally be hunted as game.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, they were hunting for the table, weren't they?
Jake Woolf: That's — yeah. But I wasn't sure, so I was leaning on my two compadres here to lead me, if I'm perfectly honest.
Avian Sandercock: You really want us to lead you anywhere? That's very dangerous, Jake. We could lead you right up the garden path.
Jake Woolf: You could have said anything, I would have believed you.
Avian Sandercock: Did.
Sam Turner: So if we're talking foreshore, then, that is mostly club-controlled stuff.
Avian Sandercock: I think it is, from what I've looked at, because historically the foreshore — and we've got a lot of that down here, Duchy land — I think the point between the spring high tide and the lowest low tide is owned by either the Crown or certain landed gentry around the country. So the rights of access are very, very different. And I think it's a bit like a lot of ground you'll shoot over having sporting rights attached to it. Somebody owns the right to shoot there; or, on a river, a club or an individual will own the riparian rights. So, you know, I may own the river physically.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: Well, you know, like you, Sam, the river that runs through your farm, you may actually own it and the land around it. But you might not actually own the rights to fish on it. Somebody else might have the riparian rights. So I think the right to shoot on the foreshore for wildfowling is owned by the landowner and they lease that generally to clubs because obviously the money involved has to be split between a club to make it work.
Sam Turner: Yeah, a lot of people, yeah. So are you a member of a club?
Avian Sandercock: No.
Sam Turner: Or have you got a club local to you?
Avian Sandercock: Yes. Yeah, there's a couple, actually. I mean, the nearest one to us is on the Camel Estuary, the Wadebridge Wildfowling Association or club. And they're quite active, actually. But I've looked at the Camel Estuary, I've kayaked up and down the Camel, and it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yards of syrupy, slippery mud and deep gullies. And, you know, I'm only four foot three and a half. I'd either sink or get lost, or maybe in 200 years they'd dig me up and think they'd found a new henge. So I've never really got involved with it.
Sam Turner: Fair enough. And is it something you want to get involved in? Let's drum up a bit of appetite.
Avian Sandercock: Having done a bit of digging around for this episode, I kind of do.
Sam Turner: Oh, good.
Avian Sandercock: I kind of fancy the idea.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: So what would you be going out for? What's a species list?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I mean, there is a prescribed species list, but broadly speaking you're out there targeting duck or geese. Without going down the whole list of what's in and what's out, I think we can post that in the show notes for people who are interested. But broadly speaking, it's duck and goose, and they tend to be coming in to feed in the morning or late in the evening. So that's where you need to position yourself. And, talking to some of the lads, you might end up with a bonus woodcock or a snipe — something coming in on those similar flight lines — but you're basically there in the half-light at either end of the day, targeting duck and geese.
Sam Turner: So you're probably best getting up early, getting out during the dark to get into your, get set up in your place ready for when it starts to get light.
Avian Sandercock: But yeah, I think very much the sort of the similar timelines to deer stalking.
Jake Woolf: Yeah, that's really interesting, because we're very lucky on the East Coast here. We've got some incredible wildfowling opportunities, from the Wash all the way round to the Thames. It is incredible. It's something I haven't done, but I'll share a story with you both. When I was getting into this journey of shooting, I visited a local game fair. I almost signed myself up to the local wildfowling club and got talking to them, because they were the only ones who would really give me the time of day and answer all the questions I had about how to get into it. But I never joined the club, just because it was so daunting to be going out with just one other person.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: And I just — they were brilliant. We've got the Fenland Wildfowlers Association, and they were so helpful.
Avian Sandercock: We have got a lot of marshes around you. I mean, like you said, the whole of the Wash, the Essex marshes — there are some fantastic places around there. I suppose you've got to avoid — going back to last week, something Garry said was you probably don't want to go in the bird reserves. That might be frowned upon.
Sam Turner: There's actually one down here, because we've got Seaton Wetlands, which is a nature reserve run by a very well-known bird-protection charity, and they've got a boardwalk thing that goes out to this wooden island where you can watch birds.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: And I've gone out there on more than one occasion and thought this would be stunning. You wouldn't have to get wet. You could go out there. It's got a roof. You'd be shooting everything like grouse. It'd be awesome.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's a birdwatching hide, mate. I think that would be severely frowned upon. And I guess the good thing about a club, to your point, Jake — and it's something I talked to the Wadebridge boys about at an open day and wasn't tempted enough to try; probably the same reason as you, I wimped out — is you've got people who know the ground, because it is treacherous. Tides are dangerous. They are.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: You need somebody who knows where they're going, what the conditions are like and what the tide times are going to be, because you've got areas where it's safe to go and other areas where it's quicksand or very deep mud that you mustn't go into. I don't think it's something you'd want to do on a whim: just grab your Beretta and your wellies and go for a stomp down the salt marshes. You'd want a club, and I guess they give you training and insurance and all that sort of stuff to boot. And, as you said, Jake, give you a guide — somebody to hold your hand for the first few trips.
Sam Turner: Well, and most of the season for duck and geese runs basically in line with partridge season, doesn't it? Kind of the first of September to the end of January. And then is it the 20th of February below the high-water mark?
Jake Woolf: I believe that's correct.
Sam Turner: For foreshore shooting.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: So you're gonna be, it's likely that it's gonna be cold.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Sam Turner: So you do need appropriate clothing.
Avian Sandercock: Below high water mark goes on to the 20th of Feb, doesn't it? Yeah.
Jake Woolf: But equally, I guess if you're going with a club, as you mentioned there about the safety and the tides and everything like that, and you touched on quarry ID, they're going to identify the quarry. We're allowed to shoot the mallard, teal, wigeon or pintail going through, but they can make sure that you don't go and shoot something like a shelduck. I mean, when those geese come through, the last thing you want to do is shoot something like a goosander. You're in trouble.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, you don't want a bag of puffin, do you? I like a bit of twitching, a bit of birdwatching, but I know I'm not very good at ducks. So I think you're absolutely right to have somebody there, even if they just give you the nod: ‘Yeah, that's quarry that's safe to shoot,’ or, ‘Guns down, lads, not that one.’ That would take a lot of the collywobbles away, wouldn't it?
Jake Woolf: And with the geese, chaps, coming off the foreshore in Norfolk, we have so many geese coming in to feed. I mean, they almost move around like starlings.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Jake Woolf: They fly like that. Is it called rumination?
Avian Sandercock: Murmuration. There we go. Thank you, Av. I knew you would help. And it's one of those where, as long as they're not a swan, we can take greylags, Canadas, the pinkfoots and the white-fronts. But I guess: is wildfowling on geese still wildfowling if you're in a farmer's field a mile away from the shore — two miles away, five or ten miles?
Jake Woolf: Murmuration. There we go. Thank you, Av. I knew you would help. And it's one of those where, as long as they're not a swan, we can take greylags, Canadas, the pinkfoots and the white-fronts. But I guess: is wildfowling on geese still wildfowling if you're in a farmer's field a mile away from the shore — two miles away, five or ten miles?
Sam Turner: I don't know. What's the one I've seen they do up in Scotland where you're kind of lying in a coffin, half buried in the ground?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, they do that a lot in Orkney, don't they? I think that's the pink-foot. I mean, some of that is a bit of vermin control. To me, that's more decoying. I could be wrong — I'm often wrong — but I really think wildfowling involves mud. Darkness and mud. That's my descriptor.
Jake Woolf: I like that. Yeah, so you've sold it to me. But you've shot one, and you're going to need a very, very good dog, aren't you? Are we taking out Labradors? Obviously, because I love a Lab.
Avian Sandercock: I think that's what Labradors were bred for, isn't it?
Sam Turner: Yeah, I'll join you on Labradors. Definitely a Lab.
Jake Woolf: You wouldn't have a cocker out there, would you?
Avian Sandercock: Oh, God, no.
Jake Woolf: I'm sure people would say they would, but you're going to need something bred for it, something big.
Avian Sandercock: Well, I think it's more a case of, having both, it's much, much easier to wash a Lab than a springer. And I think if you've got a springer in foreshore mud, just buy another springer — just leave it to fend for itself. You've got a nice Teflon Labrador, a wipe-down Lab. But I think you're right, because you're going to want the dog to spot birds. If you're looking at driven shooting, walked-up — the usual sort of game shooting that we're familiar with — your ranges are going to be fairly controlled. Whereas with wildfowling, you're in a massive expanse of flat land on the foreshore. You've got birds coming in at all sorts of different heights and speeds. You could be dropping a bird 30 or 40 yards away that runs into a gully or falls into a gully. And how the hell do you spot that? You need a dog to help you mark it and hopefully bring it back in the dark.
Jake Woolf: Yeah. You're going to need them to be very, very capable of getting out there, aren't you? And to be able to send and find and retrieve, I guess. These aren't small animals, especially if you're on the geese. So you're going to want something that can.
Sam Turner: They are hefty.
Avian Sandercock: And I think you're going to need to look at your kit as well, aren't you? I mean, you certainly wouldn't want to take your dainty little 20-bore side by side with you.
Sam Turner: No, not taking Grandfather's Purdey out, are you?
Jake Woolf: Oh, before you get into guns, because I know this is where we're heading, but what about decoying in wildfowling? We have done that on the geese in Norfolk, inland and stuff. I've seen that done. But would you go out on the foreshore and put a load of decoys out, like you would for pigeons?
Avian Sandercock: I think you've got to look at what you can carry.
Sam Turner: You wouldn't put your spinner out there.
Avian Sandercock: And I think there are some brilliant decoys now. I think they're called Sillosocks: they fold flat and they're just material. As you put them out, the wind gets into them and puffs them out. So you could probably take half a dozen of those in your bag. But you wouldn't want to be carrying — if you're pigeon shooting, you'll have maybe 20 or 30 full-bodied plastic pigeon decoys — because it's just you and Shanks's pony, isn't it? Everything you take out, you've got to carry on your back and make room for, hopefully...
Sam Turner: You know, you've got to raise a brace of duck for the table.
Jake Woolf: So, without doing my Daffy and Donald Duck impression with the old ‘wag, wag, wag’, I've seen that there are different callers.
Avian Sandercock: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Have you guys got one? I don't, but I'm assuming you almost set out: ‘I'm going for some pinkfeet today,’ or, ‘I'm going on the wigeon this evening.’ Would you have an individual caller?
Avian Sandercock: I've seen it with dedicated good wildfowlers that go out with like a necklace with various different callers on because I mean in the UK we can use electronic calls for foxes and things like that, but it's illegal to use an electronic caller for birds. So yeah, you have to have a manual caller and they are, some of them are exquisite. I think particularly in the States, hand carved callers and decoys and things are massive collector's items. But yeah, you'd have a different caller for different quarry species.
Jake Woolf: Do you know what, chaps? I think we're going to have to have a go at this and record it for our socials. We're going to have to try and go and get...
Avian Sandercock: That's a specific audience, isn't it?
Jake Woolf: No, the duck calling you. They don't want to see hippos wallowing in mud.
Sam Turner: Is it in Finland or Germany or somewhere they have the deer calling, do your best stag rutting roar.
Avian Sandercock: And they do it just with their voices.
Sam Turner: They have a competition, don't they?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah.
Sam Turner: Are we going to have a duck off?
Avian Sandercock: Careful.
Jake Woolf: I saw this young lad in America who can pretty much impersonate any bird call. He has some learning difficulties and he has turned that difficulty into something which is so cool. We're going to share his videos on social media and you guys can have a look at our Stories, because, quite frankly, how good would it be — as long as he was up for it — to take him out and also learn from him? That would never happen, but there must be some people out there who could give us some lessons. Maybe they could email in and they could...
Avian Sandercock: Brilliant, e-mail in your best duck call.
Jake Woolf: Or give us some tips — anything like that. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, we'd love to, actually. Spot on. Email in your best.
Sam Turner: I think Instagram us a video of you doing your best.
Avian Sandercock: Oh, charming down the ducks. Fantastic. I did wonder about that lad in the States, and I agree with you. I think he's worked so hard on that. But I do wonder, when he finally reaches puberty, whether we'll have sort of baritone chickadees or, you know, the bass-tenor blue jay. I wonder what's going to happen there.
Jake Woolf: Well, we'll wait and see, but do message us on Instagram and send in your duck calls. Send us some voice notes on there.
Sam Turner: We could even promise a really crap prize.
Avian Sandercock: Oh, we've got loads.
Jake Woolf: No, don't go down that route.
Avian Sandercock: Can we do guns now? Please can we do guns?
Jake Woolf: Let's do the guns. Yeah. So you mentioned you wouldn't take a little 20-bore. You're going to want something with some thump, aren't you?
Avian Sandercock: I would think so. Sam, what would you suggest? Come on, you're our armourer for the day. What do we need?
Sam Turner: You're definitely using a semi-auto, aren't you?
Avian Sandercock: I think so.
Sam Turner: Something horrible and synthetic. You don't want to take any nice wood out there. And you also need something that's going to be able to chamber three-inch cartridges, don't you? Because we are all steel. We are non-lead, sorry.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, has been for years.
Sam Turner: Has been for a long time. And big shot because like you say, they're not necessarily like a driven bird that's going to be coming over you at 40 yards. These can be way up there and take a lot of bringing down.
Avian Sandercock: Well, geese are big animals, aren't they?
Jake Woolf: So what you're saying is that I've got to ask Mrs Woolf if I can buy another shotgun, because...
Sam Turner: I don't have a semi-auto. Buy another shotgun, then ask after you've done it.
Avian Sandercock: Yes. It is always better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
Sam Turner: Yes.
Jake Woolf: So I fully agree with that and I do live by that rule. So how much am I spending chaps on a new semi-auto? You said a synthetic. I've seen those for about 350 pounds.
Sam Turner: I've got a semi-auto that cost me 150 quid. And it is the finest Turkish piece of plastic ever.
Avian Sandercock: And I think when you're starting out, that's all you need, isn't it?
Sam Turner: As long as it's reliable. It is. As long as it cycles a cartridge. What you'll find with most cheaper semi-autos is they won't cycle — if you take it out and you're shooting 21-gram clay loads, they struggle to cycle. Whereas when you're shooting big 34- or 36-gram steel loads...
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, 50 gram Magnum loads.
Sam Turner: Yeah, that's it. They've they've no problem chucking the next cartridge in for that.
Avian Sandercock: I think also they handle that recoil so much better you can have.
Sam Turner: It's a lot more comfortable.
Avian Sandercock: With gas and compression perhaps built in. And I think also, you know, we all talk about cleaning your gun after a day's shooting, but to be honest it's a little puff of oil and a gentle wipe-down with a chamois rag. Whereas these things, you're going to pretty much have to put the hose on them and get all the silt and mud off. So they've got to be robust. And if you're starting out, don't spend your money on a massively expensive gun, because you're going to drop it in. It's seawater as well, so you're going to get corrosion; you're going to get it in the mud. You want a synthetic stock. And I think, if it becomes your thing, then look at stepping up and having a better tool, definitely. So, Sam, you were talking about bigger loads. What sort of shot size are we looking at? For game shooting we'll maybe occasionally go to a No. 4 for high birds in the winter, but what are we looking at for duck and geese?
Sam Turner: I mean, duck, because you're going to be on non-toxic, you're probably going to be on No. 4 or 3 for most of it. Geese — I've taken geese out with BB.
Avian Sandercock: BB, bloody hell. I've only used those as fishing weights.
Sam Turner: So it's big, big loads.
Avian Sandercock: Big stuff.
Jake Woolf: They are big through a 12. They are some solid bombs, aren't they? But calibre-wise, now I've held a four-bore before.
Avian Sandercock: I wouldn't want to carry it across the marsh.
Jake Woolf: No, I wouldn't either. This thing was insane. However, I have seen something called a punt gun.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, that's definitely more your part of the world, isn't it — punt guns? But I think punt guns were banned, am I right in saying, in the fifties? That was very much a commercial punt gunner shooting for the market. That was shooting to earn money to feed his family. They'd have a punt, a low skiff boat. And the guns on them, I think they were one-bore or zero-bore. They fire a pound of lead.
Jake Woolf: Wow.
Sam Turner: What, just a single shot?
Avian Sandercock: Single shot. The punt gun itself is a cannon, basically. They're about six to 12 feet long. No, it's shot, but there's a pound of it. When you think your average game load is an ounce — and I think my imperial is right: is it 16 ounces in a pound? — you're basically firing 16 cartridges at once. The idea was that the punt gunner would lie face down in the boat — these very low-beamed punts, little skiff boats — with a gun mounted in the middle of it. He'd have these little paddles and he'd basically paddle out to where a group of ducks or geese were sitting on the water and try to creep up to them. Then he'd launch this pound of lead through his cannon and kill 20, 30 or 40 at a time.
Jake Woolf: And then go and collect them and bring them back to market. I think that's possibly why they were...
Avian Sandercock: And then go and collect them and bring them back to market. I think that's possibly why they were...
Jake Woolf: They were banned in the 50s. I would say even the people in the 50s, it must have been pretty bad.
Avian Sandercock: We were still fairly keen on anthrax in the 50s, weren't we?
Jake Woolf: So, with the guns, I guess they haven't changed for so long — obviously, take the punt gun out of the way. Modernising is like moving to the semi-auto. It amazes me how these things haven't really changed. You've got three cartridges, though, haven't you, with a semi-auto? Not two. I mean, you can have more as well, can't you?
Avian Sandercock: You can have more, but I think generally for wildfowling, if you start putting more cartridges in, the whole thing's going to get heavier and less nimble. It's like in the States, where you see on videos they'll decoy in 450 geese and then they've all got 12-shot 12-bores and just unleash shot on them and take them all out. I think in the UK there's obviously quite a bit of etiquette and sport to it. I don't think many wildfowlers would shoot a duck or a goose on the water. It's very much in flight.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: And as we all know, you know, my little three shot 20-bore for pigeons, they're a bit of a cartridge waster because if you can't hit it with two, do you really need that third one just to give it the proper hurry up?
Sam Turner: Well, you need to try and explain to your firearms officer. Without sounding mad that I need a FAC 12-shot shotgun so that I can shoot ducks like they do in America.
Avian Sandercock: He may frown, he or she may frown on that.
Sam Turner: They might, yeah.
Avian Sandercock: And I think, you know, on a game shoot you may take maybe 50 shots, maybe more on a busy day. I'd guess, on wildfowling, you don't want to shoot too many because you've got to carry them back. You don't have pickers-up and you don't have a game cart. I think if you shoot two greylag geese, you're probably done.
Sam Turner: They are heavy. I did drop one on someone's vehicle once and it made quite a mess of it.
Avian Sandercock: Quite the hole. So what kind of kit do we need then guys? If we're going to go out in the mud, we've done guns, we've got a dog, what else are we going to need?
Sam Turner: Clothing's going to be an important one, but I think we've kind of covered that already, haven't we?
Avian Sandercock: Yeah. So something you don't mind getting ruined, I guess, but it's got to be waterproof, windproof, comfortable and drab.
Sam Turner: Do you need, I mean obviously we're all going out at first, we're going to speak to somebody who's knowledgeable about this stuff and go out with them. But when it gets to the stage where you're going out by yourself, I guess it's a good idea to tell somebody you're going out and where you're going. Just in case something happens.
Avian Sandercock: Totally. Yeah.
Sam Turner: Are we GPS things?
Jake Woolf: I was just thinking that. Yeah. Would you have your Garmin watch or would you ping out a location from your phone to someone trusted or turn on locations devices or?
Avian Sandercock: I think all of that is definitely valid. I think, again, just be aware you are in salt water. Make sure it's either rated for salt water or it's kept in a waterproof bag and don't rely on it because you know you can be without signal or...
Jake Woolf: What about a flare? Sam, what do you reckon too? Would you take out a flare gun or it's there and please excuse a bit of a novice. This isn't a silly question. Can you get a cartridge that can be a tracer to warn or flare up to the sky? Is that possible? I don't know. So, would you carry a flare gun first of all, and is there something that you can have in a cartridge that could make people aware of?
Sam Turner: I don't think they do anything in the cartridge, but you can get those. You don't even need a flare gun now, do you? Can get those almost just those little tubes.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, they're like those.
Sam Turner: Little emergency flare things if you wanted one of those.
Avian Sandercock: Yeah, I think that that's in extremis. That would be belt and braces, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that as an idea.
Sam Turner: Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: But I think it's just be safe. I mean, you should be going out on your first couple of trips with a guy. And I think somebody in the club will clue you in what your particular piece of foreshore needs. I mean, there are guys who go out with paddles on their feet because it's particularly sloshy. But I think if you're warm and dry, welly boots. And again, I think of something for the dog because you'll be sat in a muddy hole.
Jake Woolf: I was going to mention about that.
Avian Sandercock: Maybe considering neoprene for the dog?
Sam Turner: I've seen those neoprene vest kind of things you can get for a dog that will just help them keep warm.
Jake Woolf: Friends who are wildfowlers wouldn't go out without them for their dogs, making sure that they're warm. I do know that in the clubs around here, you have to let the WhatsApp group know that you're going out.
Avian Sandercock: That's a good shout.
Jake Woolf: And so they all know straight away and you drop a pin and if you've lost a bird. Then you almost try and drop that pin using what3words?
Avian Sandercock: Okay.
Jake Woolf: And so the use of the app what3words has become very popular in wildfowling. Yeah, certainly for the clubs around here.
Avian Sandercock: I think one thing to mention on what3words — it's something Richard Prideaux is keen to talk about — is don't rely on what3words to get you out of trouble. It'll tell them exactly where you are, but it won't give them any advice as to how to get to you. And I think his other point was it's better to have part of a map reference than wrongly pronounced or misheard three words. If you've got a bit of a map reference, you know roughly where somebody is. Whereas, if you've got ‘potato, orange, castle’ and somebody mishears ‘potato’, it doesn't get you anywhere close. So bear that in mind. It's good for marking, but not for recovering. Well, look, guys, I think I'm leaning more towards giving this a go, but the most important thing I want to talk about now is: we've got our duck. I want to bloody eat it. Who's got recipes for ducks or geese?
Sam Turner: Geese just used to pull the guts out, pluck them, chuck them in the oven. And it was very much a lottery because some would be delicious and some would be absolutely rancid. But you couldn't tell until you'd cooked it. Some just tasted like seaweed. I guess it all depends on what they've been eating and bits like that.
Avian Sandercock: Because I do always say with Canada geese, the old thing is that you place a brick in the bottom of a pan, add loads of vegetables, put your goose in, roast your goose, throw it all away and eat the brick.
Sam Turner: Yes.
Jake Woolf: Definitely. Have either of you had goose for Christmas?
Avian Sandercock: We did once. It was very, very good fun to do, but there's, I think we all thought it was going to be turkey size when it was finished. And there's so much fat on them, they do render down to not very much.
Sam Turner: Yeah, I did. It wasn't a wild goose, but I did one of those three-bird ones, which was...
Avian Sandercock: A, I want to say it was a turducken.
Sam Turner: A partridge inside a duck inside a goose. Anyway, Christmas dinner was about four hours late because I kept putting that temperature probe into it and it wasn't hot enough.
Jake Woolf: What about you, Jake?
Avian Sandercock: Have you got any crafty BBQ ideas or favourite way to have duck?
Jake Woolf: So it's a really good one that you can cook over coals — hot flames, a bit of fire cookery. You take your duck breast and cut it off, but make sure you keep the fat, okay? Then you want to sear the fat first, flash-fry it and cook it up to temperature. A meat probe is a very, very good bit of kit for any kind of cooking outside — you know this — because you don't want horrible food poisoning. Sear the fat, turn it over and sear that again, then slice it and have it nice and pink. But what you can be doing then is either a redcurrant jus, or orange — duck à l'orange. You can take some marmalade, reduce that down and pour it over. What I would do is take some potatoes and have them on a skillet, frying over the fire in cast iron, with a bit of rosemary and maybe some other herbs as well. Then, very simply, serve it sliced with either your redcurrant jus or your orange-marmalade jus, with the potatoes you've made. But if you can get some sloe-gin and redcurrant jelly, use that. That's very, very nice as well.
Avian Sandercock: I think that sounds like a bloody good idea. There's one I'm going to chuck in, which I'm going to give a go. If I can get a goose, I'm going to hand it over to young Samuel and see if he can make us some goose jerky, or even hot-smoke or cold-smoke it.
Sam Turner: Would goose be a bit too fatty for jerky?
Avian Sandercock: I don't know. Let's find out.
Sam Turner: There's only one way to find out.
Avian Sandercock: What about goose burgers if they're fatty? But I think smoked goose sounds good.
Sam Turner: Smoked duck is lovely. Another easy, quick and easy one. Jake, your recipe for duck sounded nice, but a quick and easy one I do with duck is literally either cut it into strips or cube it in a hot wok. Noodles, hoisin sauce, done.
Jake Woolf: All very nice.
Sam Turner: I bet that would be. Something like that. Yeah.
Avian Sandercock: I mean, I think if we did, I don't know, could you do duck burgers and goose sausages?
Sam Turner: I don't see why not.
Jake Woolf: Do a wildfowl burger. And can you charcuterie them as well, I wonder? Then you'd have very nice goose salami. And I'm going to throw in pâté. Are we?
Avian Sandercock: Well, I think goose liver pate is a classic, isn't it?
Jake Woolf: Yeah, it was.
Avian Sandercock: And I think a goose has probably got a big enough liver to make it worth your while having a go.
Sam Turner: Definitely.
Avian Sandercock: Lads, I think that has actually turned the corner. I'm going to give this a go, I think.
Jake Woolf: We can have some fun here.
Sam Turner: I think the BASC are the first port of call when it comes to wildfowling, because I think they've got good links to get people involved in wildfowling. So it's definitely, if there's anyone out there now that after listening to us waffle on for half an hour about it, wants to go and do it, get in touch with your local BASC office and they'll point you in the right direction.
Avian Sandercock: That is fantastic. Well, boys, I think that is pretty much time to put your head torch on, paddle out of the mud, bring your geese with you, get the dog warm and dry and fed, and we shall bugger off. Next, I think we're going to be tackling Jake's need to become a beginning fly-fisher person. So it's time to get your shooting heads out. Time to get your tippets.
Sam Turner: Why have you got to keep on asking me this question?
Avian Sandercock: Because you're the only one who remembers it.
Sam Turner: It's all in the show notes, but you can find us on our website, which is in the show notes. Fish and Game on Instagram, part of the SideCountry Network, also on Instagram, and our own socials on there as well. I'm sure we'll pop up somewhere. Don't forget to like. Give us a nice five-star review on the podcast and subscribe. That would be great. And then you don't miss any, which you wouldn't want to.
Avian Sandercock: And don't forget to Instagram us your duck calls. I think that would be great.
Jake Woolf: Definitely. And if you do have any recipes as well, let's have some recipes and tag us in your cookery. So if you're making a goose burger, if you're making a duck sausage or anything like that, we want to see it. Tag us.
Avian Sandercock: Fantastic. That's been amazing. Jake, I'm sure you're bored of us.
Jake Woolf: I am. I'm bored of you. Bye.
Avian Sandercock: Thanks, everybody. We're out.
Jake Woolf: Have a great week. Take care, guys.